190 bar Nozzles: Upgrade to 220 bar Nozzles

Hi.

Currently, I'm testing a motor control unit (part number 028 906 021 HD - MSA15) from ALE in my 1Z engine.

The 1Z has nozzles with a pressure of 190 bar, while the ALE has nozzles with a pressure of 220 bar.
(Edit: I just verified the 220 bar pressure in the e-catalogue, but it's for the ALE system in the Polo Variant from 1997 onwards.)

In 220-bar nozzles, the pre-stage and main stage are located closely behind each other during the pressure build-up phase.

If the high-definition fuel injector is now accurately controlling the start of injection (which it is), then in reality, my engine injects the main portion of the fuel LATER.

Then, should I replace this part with the standard 028 906 021 AF (MSA12) again for the weekend trip (which will be 500 or even 1000 km)? Or should I?

m;
he will soon need 27 places for his engine code identifier .

dieselmartin wrote:

Then I should probably replace that part with the standard 028 906 021 AF (MSA12) again for the weekend (= 500 or even 1000 km)? Or not?

... or adapt the SB Pi x with a thumbs-up?
I would assume a starting point of 1-2 degrees and then fine-tune based on the popometer reading and fuel consumption.

The injection start point is earlier for HD (under load) compared to, for example, BF (which corresponds to AF).

So -> Ignore

Best regards,
Rudi

Hi Martin,

dieselmartin wrote:

Hi. Currently, I'm testing a motor control unit (part number 028 906 021 HD - MSA15) from ALE in my 1Z engine. The 1Z has nozzles with a pressure of 190 bar, while the ALE has nozzles with a pressure of 220 bar. (Edit: I just verified the 220 bar pressure in the e-catalogue, but it's for the ALE system in the Polo Variant from 1997 onwards.) In 220-bar nozzles, the pre-stage and main stage are located close together during the pressure build-up phase. If the high-definition fuel injector is now accurately controlling the start of injection (which it is), then in reality, my engine is injecting the main fuel volume *later*. Then, should I probably replace that part with the standard 028 906 021 AF (MSA12) again for the weekend (= 500 or even 1000 km)? Or not?

Yes, if the injection start time is set later in the HD control unit's characteristic maps compared to the original control unit, the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) will also inject fuel accordingly later.
That's why I wouldn't panic, especially if the HD control unit is injecting fuel in the standard production quantity. And if it's been tuned, just compare the maps to your original control unit.

Best regards, Rainer.

hi Rudi

You once showed me that there were differences in the data, but I can't find those number columns anymore.

@ Rainer
"Getuned" doesn't do anything, but the HD version frees up a few more megabytes, 38.8 instead of 35.4 (in the AF).


So, you mean to say that I could take a train trip of 250 km tomorrow and still make it back home by Monday morning ?

Yes, you can take the train .

As I mentioned before, you don't need to worry about the delay. The VP (likely referring to a control unit or system) determines the start of injection. The higher the opening pressure of the pilot and main injection, the smaller the injection window becomes. Therefore, the delay is completely negligible in your case. So, go ahead and proceed!

Regards!

I think I'm going to uninstall the MSA15 right now.

The device is unable to smoothly switch between the quantity-controlled and speed-controlled operating ranges.

This morning, I noticed that the part reacts differently when you gently press the accelerator.

Earlier, while experimenting with adaptations, I noticed the following:
- Let it idle at 2000 RPM and slowly ease off the accelerator.
- The voltage at the ESP is decreasing.
- Just before the idle speed, it suddenly drops from 1.2 to 0.7 volts - the engine jerks briefly.
- then everything will be regulated gently again.

As I was driving along in a speed-limited zone (30 km/h) in third gear at 1200 RPM (foot lightly on the accelerator), the thing suddenly lurched forward slightly. It seemed unsure whether it should engage or disengage the boost. The MSA12 was absolutely perfect and unnoticeable in that situation.

When comparing software versions 1258 and 1704, the control parameters are also different. So, it's not just different characteristic maps, but also the software that attempts to implement those maps.

m;

Hi Martin,
I haven't noticed any switching problems with the BF (although it might also be that my...
That awesome Volvo with its LT diesel engine toughened me up in many ways.

What is 1258 supposed to be? The AF had D70 and D80 models. There's nothing directly comparable to the MSA12 and 15.
The principles have remained largely the same (the characteristic maps have retained a similar shape).
However, the implementation details are quite different. In the MSA12, the control logic is distributed across two slow 8-bit processors.
Value ranges are almost exclusively 8-bit (256), which means this device is slow and has low resolution.
The MSA15 now only contains a single (16-bit) processor, which is somewhat faster and handles the majority of the tasks.
It stores values using 16 bits (65,536 steps). At least the hardware requirements are better than those of the MSA12.
If the component is applied suboptimally in the regulator transition area...

Best regards,
Rudi

OK, I'm going to do it now .

Tools, laptop, and 021 AF in the luggage .

If you don't hear from me on Monday, it means I'm stuck on the A61 highway.

Greetings.
martin

Okay,

The MSA15 is still installed and everything is still working (although the battery showed signs of age yesterday morning when it was -8 degrees Celsius).

I almost logged the entire 230 km route from KL to BN (sections 004-008) and wanted to create a nice speed-quantity scatter plot.

"14 degrees before top dead center with a significant load sounds (in terms of the number) quite unusual and aggressive... but the 190-bar injectors will probably compensate for that later..."

It's really annoying that the engine injects a lot of fuel even with minimal throttle input: the car jerks forward and then immediately goes into full power... it's bothersome, especially in city traffic.

If I can conquer the beast that is Excel, there will be a graph visualizing the data.

m;

It's time to get the MSA15 data adjusted to a dataset that's compatible with your car .
Could it be that the donor vehicle already had a dual-mass flywheel?

Best regards,
Rudi

ZMS ? No idea.

At least the MSA12 is back in place now.

m;