Crankcase Ventilation: Separate Oil & Gas Tank?

Hello everyone,

As some of you may have noticed, I'm still working on converting to VNT20.
In this context, I've been considering diverting the crankcase ventilation oil and gases into a separate container, which I could then, for example, empty every year, so that all that gunk (sorry ) doesn't get into my freshly machined cylinder head.
Fortunately, my intercooler system was also unaffected by the oil sludge.

Question:

Abgesehen davon, dass es nicht erlaubt ist wegen Umwelttechnischen Gründen - schadet es meinen Turbo oder sonstige Teile am Motor? (Vielleicht auch eine Art Schmierung? Cooling?)
I don't know if the sole reason why VW directs the crankcase ventilation into the intake system is due to environmental regulations.

Regards,
DJ.

Hello DJ,

Some of this is achieved through oil mist, which can cause the intercooler to become clogged and the EGR valve (or throttle body in gasoline Alfas ) to become stuck.
I also don't know why they don't include an oil separator in the standard production. I suspect they're not sure exactly when the container might overflow, so they burn it off as a precaution.

If you only want to register your vehicle for racing (with a DSMB racing permit), this oil separator is actually mandatory.

Best regards, Jochen.

Hello dj1!

The crankcase ventilation (CCV) system connects to the intake manifold because it contains the so-called "blow-by" gases, which are rich in hydrocarbons (HC) and carbon monoxide (CO). Of course, a small amount of oil mist is also present.
Primarily, however, it concerns the oxidation of the blow-by gases, which are produced in relatively large quantities.

Regards,
Alex.

Hi,

Okay, so I can safely attach this container and let the stuff flow into it.
Attach a small filter to the top of the container to allow the gases to escape, while collecting the rest inside and emptying it periodically.

Best regards and thank you.

DJ.

@dj1,

Did you build the separator yourself, or even test it? I'm curious to hear about your experiences.


Regards,
René.

'It definitely doesn't cause any technical damage, especially considering that most tractors used to have an open crankcase ventilation system. And if you collect the oil mist in a container and then empty it, why shouldn't that be allowed? In fact, it's even better from an environmental perspective... aside from those blow-by gases.'

Hello,
But doesn't the AFN already have a separator installed between the ESL lines?
The Ducatos have a kind of siphon for that. But it's best to collect it separately, of course!
Best regards, Rodion.

rodNeX wrote:

Hello, But doesn't the AFN already have a separator installed between the ESL lines? The Ducatos have a kind of siphon for that. But it's best to collect it separately, of course! Best regards, Rodion

Unfortunately, the separators only capture the larger droplets; most of what comes out are extremely fine oil vapors, which cannot be condensed within a few centimeters. I also experimented with this in the past, and I found that the air mass was slightly higher because the vapors were no longer being drawn in. Regarding the clean cylinder head, if the EGR system is also disabled, a little bit of oil doesn't matter; the channels only become clogged when soot from the EGR system combines with the oil.

Regarding environmental friendliness, as mentioned in the previous post. I'm not sure which is worse: 100ml of oil that gets burned over 20,000km, or kilograms of unburned hydrocarbons (HC), nitrogen oxides (NOX), and all that other stuff.

Jochen_145 wrote:

... If you only want to register your vehicle for racing (with a DSMB racing permit), this oil separator is actually mandatory.

That's just a rumor!

In the N+G classes, this is strictly prohibited (as it's considered a modification), unless the vehicle has it as standard equipment. The same applies to the F class. There's even a clear regulation stating that the blow-by gases must be directed into the intake manifold. I'm not entirely sure about the H class, as I don't have the current rulebook. In the very old documents I have, it's clearly forbidden to vent the gases to the outside.
Reine Ölabscheider (bzw. Kondensatabscheider) sind dagegen gewünscht. Ka duty.

In the 1980s, numerous racing vehicles were equipped with containers, typically small canisters, to collect blow-by gases and their condensate.
From my own experience, I can say you will be very disappointed when you see what ends up in that canister. It's hardly any oil at all.
The turbocharger itself contributes the largest share of oil mist (and therefore oil sludge) in TDI engines, as its shaft seals can never be 100% leak-proof.

Quote:

Question: Abgesehen davon, dass es nicht erlaubt ist wegen Umwelttechnischen Gründen - schadet es meinen Turbo oder sonstige Teile am Motor? (Vielleicht auch eine Art Schmierung? Cooling?)

No.

Quote:

I don't know if the sole reason why VW directs the crankcase ventilation into the intake system is the environmental law.

That has nothing to do with VW. Other manufacturers have to do the same.
It is mandatory to connect the crankcase ventilation system to the intake system. Open ventilation systems have been prohibited since 1969.
It's mainly because the legislator only wants a single exhaust outlet to be able to assess the total emissions of an engine. An open ventilation system would represent another exhaust outlet, which would distort the overall emissions and make it impossible to measure them accurately. Unfortunately, this was a nightmare for the engine engineers.

"If I were to modify anything, it would be to install a proper cyclone oil separator to separate the oil from the gases. Then, you can simply route the gases into the intake system. No one can object to that. These oil separators are available as standard parts on various (including VAG) vehicles."

Open ventilation systems have not been permitted since 1969.


This, however, only applies to passenger cars .

Devilseye503 wrote:

Quote: Open ventilation systems have not been permitted since 1969. This, however, only applies to passenger cars

.

Yes.

I'm not aware of when this regulation also came into effect for commercial vehicles (it does now).

@dj1,

Did you build the separator yourself, or even test it? I'm curious to hear about your experiences.


Regards,
René

Hi,

Not yet.
I'm not entirely sure yet how I should weld the container.
I was thinking of using an aluminum container with an inlet for the ventilation gas and the oil, and an outlet at the top for the gases. Some people put a small K&N filter on top.

I'm still looking for images for inspiration...


Regards,
DJ.

Bertil wrote:

The turbocharger itself contributes the largest share of oil mist (and therefore oil sludge) in TDI engines, as its shaft seals can never be 100% leak-proof.

Hi,
A properly functioning turbocharger should not pump oil into the intake side. The bearing is designed so that the oil flows downwards towards the housing and into the return hose before reaching the shaft end. Oil leakage from the turbocharger is usually caused by a defect or a kinked, blocked, or otherwise restricted oil return line. Normally, exhaust gases and fresh air are more likely to push into the turbocharger bearing, rather than the other way around; therefore, the oil return line is designed with a relatively large cross-section. In the crankcase, the exhaust gas/air mixture separates from the majority of the oil.

Hello,

Okay, here's a dumb question:

Can someone explain to me how an oil separator works and show me (with a picture) what it looks like on the inside?

Regards,
DJ.

PS: I want to build it myself, using aluminum.

Hello DJ,

What you're looking for is actually available as a series! I believe it's for the US market.

Someone once posted a picture of a Jetta (or Vento, which is basically the same car) engine bay on a Golf 3 forum, asking what that crazy-looking component on the cylinder head cover was. I can't seem to find that post.

It seems someone mentioned that the Americans have to do things this way because their emission regulations are even stricter than ours?

Perhaps it would be worth researching that further.


VG
Above.

Edit:
/viewtopic.php?t=8656&highlight=kge+%F6l

Further down in the thread, there's a link to the manufacturer of such products.

Hi,

werd wohl dieses Teil (von Audi) kaufen und einbauen. Ready.

http://img58.exs.cx/img58/9505/lcatcher8uw.jpg

Regards,
DJ.