Green Environmental Sticker for Cars

Hello,

Does anyone know if it's possible to get a 1Z engine converted to Euro 3 standards, and if so, how? This would allow one to obtain a particulate filter and subsequently receive the green environmental sticker.
The current idea is to potentially bring it up to a similar performance level as the AAH, which also produces 66 kW from a 1.9-liter engine.

Best regards, Kaindl.

Hello,
The current idea is to potentially bring it up to a similar performance level as the AAH, which also produces 66 kW from a 1.9-liter engine.
best regards kaindl
The AAH is a 2.8L V6 gasoline engine... that should be interesting .

So, then it's probably better to focus on the AHH .

Is it worth it?

The AHH had an 11mm pump and 0.154 injectors, along with the corresponding software.

AFAIK, the wiring harness needs to be modified because the 11mm pump has an 10-pin connector and doesn't have a potentiometer as an MSW (Multi-Sensor Wheel). Therefore, it's also necessary to check whether the MSG (Main System Module) needs to be replaced as well.

The hardware alone, without the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), will certainly cost well over €1,000.
Furthermore, there's the recurring problem that the Audi 80 never had a EURO3 emissions standard version.
They were only available in A4 format initially...

Therefore, the IMA initiative is unfortunately a futile endeavor.

Best regards, Jochen.

Just a quick heads-up:

Vehicle classification is based on key numbers, and these numbers must not be altered.
Unless the vehicle manufacturer applies to the KBA (German Federal Motor Transport Authority) for a reclassification (with the corresponding modifications), this reclassification requires extensive testing and validation. This is very expensive and far exceeds the cost of purchasing a new vehicle.
The only possible detour (perhaps) would be to declare it as a self-built vehicle. However, in that case, the builder would have to fulfill the entire approval process. So, again, there would be a lot of costs involved.

Just the cost of the emissions test (which is required when converting a vehicle) can be enough to buy a car with a yellow or green sticker. Not to mention the material costs for the conversion itself.

Hi,

Quote:

Vehicle classification is based on key numbers, and these numbers must not be altered.

So, that means it won't work even if the corresponding car also had an engine that met the new emission standards, right?

"For example, if someone were to install an AXR engine (Euro 4) in a Golf 4 ASV (Euro 3) – assuming, for the sake of argument, that everything is replaced – it wouldn't work due to the key numbers, unless the manufacturer applies for a re-registration specifically for that conversion."

If that's the case... then the aforementioned project is indeed more than just unlikely to succeed - at least within the scope that people at MT envision.

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

... So, that means it won't work even if the corresponding car also had an engine that met the new emission standards, right?

Basically, yes.

Quote:

"For example, if someone were to install an AXR engine (Euro 4) in a Golf 4 ASV (Euro 3) – assuming, for the sake of argument, that everything is replaced – it wouldn't work due to the key numbers, unless the manufacturer applies for a re-registration specifically for that conversion."

However, there might be a way out in such a situation:
Building a vehicle onto a bare chassis. However, I'd rather not explain here what the financial and regulatory implications of that are.

Quote:

If that's the case... then the project in question is indeed more than just unlikely to succeed - at least within the scope that people at MT envision.

Yes, at least it's not feasible for "small amounts of money."

Hmm, I've seen several times that a complete engine replacement can also change the vehicle's emission class!
And even if the model only came with engines that had a lower emissions standard.

Since I've been thinking about 'boosting' my 1Z for quite some time now,
I still want to add my two cents.

There's also the ALE, which was included in the latest G3 models.
It has Euro 3 emissions standards and is most similar to the 1Z.

The main changes involve the fuel injectors (220 bar opening pressure instead of 190 bar) and the engine control unit (ECU) software. The exhaust gas recirculation system is likely the same as in the newer 1Z models.

Now the question is whether this is really all there is, and how to convince the inspector from the TÜV to approve everything.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to contact VW and ask them to provide a list of all the modifications required to convert a 1Z model into an ALE model.

What do you think?

sp52 wrote:

Hmm, I've seen several times that a complete engine replacement also changed the emission class for the car! ...

The emission class, yes, but not the key numbers. That's a world of difference.

"And for the change of the emission class, you need an emissions test report. If the vehicle manufacturer doesn't provide it (because, for example, they produced that combination in series), then you have to have it created yourself."
For the 1Z engine in the Audi 80 that was treated with MT, the entire process is likely to be quite difficult and expensive.

sp52 wrote:

... There's also the ALE, which was included in the latest G3 models. It has Euro 3 emissions standards and is most similar to the 1Z.

That might work. There's an emissions test report from VW for that, and your plan is feasible.

Quote:

The main changes involve the fuel injectors (with a higher opening pressure of 220 bar instead of 190 bar) and the engine control unit (ECU) software. The exhaust gas recirculation system is likely the same as in the newer 1Z models.

The ESP and the lines to the nozzles are also different. That will be expensive.

Quote:

Now the question is whether this is really all there is, and how to convince the inspector from the TÜV to approve everything.

Only if the block has the ALE marking, and the components relevant to exhaust emissions match those specified by the ALE. Incidentally, simply stamping a 1Z with the ALE marking is forgery. Don't get caught doing that.

However, as Jochen mentioned above, this conversion goes far beyond what I would invest in such a car.

...
The ESP and the lines to the nozzles are also different. That will be expensive.
...

The fuel lines shouldn't be a major problem; as far as I know, they were only reinforced to better withstand the increased injection pressure.
I think the impeller might also be at a steeper angle in the pump.
(It wouldn't be bad to try and get a little more power out of the car ).

Only if the block has the ALE marking, and the components relevant to exhaust emissions match those specified by the ALE. Incidentally, simply stamping a 1Z with the ALE marking is forgery. Don't get caught doing that.

I really don't want to swap this block right now, as there are no foreseeable changes that would be relevant for reporting purposes.

sp52 wrote:

... The fuel lines shouldn't be a major problem; as far as I know, they were only reinforced to better withstand the increased injection pressure.

Yes, but have you ever looked at the price for the package of pipes...?

Quote:

I think the impeller might also be at a steeper angle in the pump. (It wouldn't be bad to try and get a little more power out of the car ).

What's the point of having the correct impeller if the wrong number is printed on the pump?

Quote:

I really don't want to exchange this block now, because there are truly no changes expected from it that would be relevant for delivery...

Then let's do it ...

It might work in your case. However, you won't have a "real" 1Z anymore.

Hi,

Just one more question for clarification... purely out of interest, not based on any specific intention.

Quote:

Vehicle classification is based on key numbers, and these numbers must not be altered.

In the context of "I'm modifying something to install in a 1980s Audi 80 to improve its classification," that approach doesn't work well for this reason.

What if someone were to put a 1Z engine into a gasoline-powered Audi 80 that has a Euro 2 emissions rating and would therefore receive a green environmental sticker? Assuming that the 1Z Audi 80 is a recognized model (and we'll also assume a complete conversion with everything needed for a 1Z Audi 80), the vehicle's identification numbers should remain the same. If the identification numbers on the car remain unchanged, it should still qualify for the green sticker. However, I can't imagine that this is what was intended, and I doubt it would actually work.

It seems to me like this is a rule that only comes into play to avoid giving the vehicle owner an advantage.

What exactly did I miss?

Best regards,

Jan.

When performing engine conversions, you must ensure that the emissions rating of the engine being installed is not worse than what is permitted by the vehicle's specifications. Any degradation in emissions will not be accepted by anyone.

It is only permissible to install an engine that has the same or even a better emission class. However, even then, it is not always the case that you will be recognized for the better emission rating if the bodywork is not 100% identical. The reasons for refusing the better emission rating usually include generalized improvements such as better aerodynamics or noise insulation in the donor vehicle, which are supposedly not applicable to your own vehicle.

Here in the east, it's equally important: The engine you want to install must have been originally intended for that specific car body. You must then provide proof that the car body is mechanically identical to the donor vehicle, meaning you shouldn't have to fabricate any extra brackets or supports for anything. The braking system, axles, transmission, exhaust system, etc., must be identical or compatible. In general, for unusual modifications, manufacturers' certificates or declarations of conformity are required, which manufacturers or importers are often reluctant or unwilling to provide.


For example, it was an incredible challenge to get a 2-liter engine from a GTI installed in a 1997 Nissan Almera station wagon instead of the standard 1.4-liter gasoline engine – despite both having the same Euro 2 emissions rating. The problem was that the GTI was always a 3-door hatchback! The station wagon received the GTI axles, brakes, instruments, and all engine-related wiring harnesses. The entire exhaust system could be reused, but the inlet pipe to the muffler and the tailpipe had to be extended. Only original parts were used for the conversion.

Ultimately, for the money spent, one could have either bought a used GTI (3-door) or a slightly larger and heavier Primera with an (almost) identical engine. But the customer had set their mind on it, and now they probably have Germany's fastest Almera version.

Jan6K wrote:

.... What exactly did I miss?

At first, I also thought it might be a missing piece... Unfortunately, you're changing the engine type from "gasoline" to "diesel."

Hi,

Quote:

It is only permissible to install an engine that has the same or even a better emission class.

"Of course, I know all that; that's not what the question was about. If you were to (theoretically) replace a Euro 2 gasoline engine with a Euro 2 diesel engine, that would be true - they would be the same emission class."

However, it's a different PM class, which in turn depends on the chassis number, and that depends on the body. That was the question... so, to be precise, which rule applies. The one you mentioned probably doesn't, because it's Euro 2 -> Euro 2, and therefore allowed (assuming that both engines were available with that exact configuration).

Best regards,

Jan.

...'Putting a diesel engine in a gasoline car would likely not be approved by anyone at DE***. Conversely, putting a gasoline engine in a diesel car might be feasible. But who would do such a crazy thing?! The Corrado-to-TDI conversions are probably a thing of the past now, due to all the particulate matter regulations...