PTC vs. Auxiliary Heater (regarding...) Environment, consumer affairs...

Hi.

I've now spent two mornings in a row leisurely watching my car's defroster work on the windshield: starting the car, pressing the defrost button, and having a cup of coffee.
It's going super fast .

Does anyone know how this preheating compares to a standing heater, aside from the engine's cold start function?

The heat pump (SH) must have significantly more power because it first heats the water. The PTC heater only heats the air. Sure, that means everything will be warm on the SH, but my main concern is creating a safe driving condition, not comfort at 30 degrees .

What consumes more energy to clear the windshield?

The PTC heater has the disadvantage of a cheerfully clattering BMR (Battery Management System) and "your car farts" (quote from my little one), meaning exhaust fumes.

m;

The auxiliary heater also produces exhaust fumes ....

Okay, so my Webasto Thermo Top C in my small Ibiza probably uses 0.6 liters per hour of operation. If it runs for half an hour in the morning, that would be 0.3 liters! It usually takes about 15 minutes for the windshield to clear, even with the blower directed at the windshield.

'With the last tank of fuel, I was able to drive about 100 km less. After about 2 weeks of daily use of the heater, this aligns with the estimated consumption, which would be approximately 5 liters of diesel.'

I believe the heating system has a power of 5.2 kW.

I would only use the option to have the car delivered "ready to drive" if it includes an electric engine pre-heater.
However, this only makes sense if the local conditions are suitable (e.g., if there's an outlet in the vicinity of the car).

Otherwise, I would always prefer a standing heater, because the wear and tear is simply too high with other methods, especially if only short distances are driven afterwards.
Vehicles equipped with a PTC auxiliary heater will not have a glow plug auxiliary heater, will they?
Then the engine will continue to run cold for a longer period.


Regarding the consumption, one would need to know how long it takes for the windshield to clear, or how long it takes for you to drink your coffee .
As mentioned below and in the previous post, a parking heater consumes 0.3 to 0.8 liters of fuel per hour, depending on the selected power level and the power output itself.
Your engine will likely consume 0.8 liters per hour in a cold state, assuming the alternator (LiMa) is operating under a good load.
I would almost say that, due to the immediate heating effect of the BMR auxiliary heater, you might actually need a little less of it overall.

However, it also depends somewhat on how the auxiliary heater was connected.
There are valves that can separately control the coolant circuit for the auxiliary heater when the auxiliary heater is running. Then only the engine won't warm up quickly, but the interior becomes relatively warm fairly fast.




Currently, I can only talk about our T4 van.
There is an additional temperature switch installed that prevents the fan from starting until the coolant temperature reaches 40°C.
After 15 minutes of operation of the 3 kW auxiliary heater (or upgraded pre-heater, approximately 0.5L/h), the blower turns on, and it only takes a few more minutes for the windshield to clear.
Once you start driving, the interior heats up after just a few kilometers.

Whew... I believe there are so many factors that would need to be weighed against each other.

The fact is, the auxiliary heater consumes fuel. However, the warm-up phase of the engine is drastically reduced. It also raises the question of what type of heating system is used. In most new cars, a water circulation system is typically used to heat the interior, which avoids wasting energy on heating the engine.
This might suggest that modern engines, when used with modern synthetic oils, experience negligible wear during the break-in period.
However, I prefer the version with engine preheating.
A portion of the fuel consumed by the SH is recovered in the form of reduced fuel consumption when the engine is warmed up. Therefore, the estimated consumption of 0.3 liters per SH usage is now reduced to approximately 0.2 liters.

In contrast, starting a cold engine and turning on the air conditioning.
It only works up to +5 degrees Celsius.
Or are you simply suggesting starting the engine until the coolant, with the help of the heater, reaches the correct temperature to heat the air directed at the windshield?
In addition, unfavorable warm-up conditions can negatively affect the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).
Besides the fact that warming up while stationary is generally frowned upon and prohibited.
because it's damaging the environment, as we all know .

Okay, then a bit more detailed:

I don't have heated seats, and I probably won't be adding them.

"Idling" is prohibited, but I don't do it because the engine is still cold when the window is clear *aetsch*.

I start the engine and press the defrost button. As a result, the Climatronic system activates the compressor (ECON turns off) and the PTC heating element. Warm air starts blowing within seconds. The spectacle is over in less than 5 minutes; in other words, there will only be water on the three front windows.

m;

Quote:

PTC vs. Standheizung (regarding). Environment, consumer...)

Supplement: ... vs. Calix heating system.

/viewtopic.php?t=3132&highlight=calix

I know someone who used them for years in the 1Z, but I can't say whether they still use them .
My AXR skis, at least, are taken out every winter and perform excellently.

My previous vehicle, a Suzuki Ignis DDIS, had a PTC interior heater. The tangible benefits are: warm air from the ventilation nozzles seconds after the engine starts, and after a minute, very hot air. Even with the prohibited idling, a frosted windshield can be cleared in just 2 to 3 minutes (depending on the thickness of the ice). In the interest of ice-free windshields, PTC seems to be the most effective solution. A parking heater needs to warm the entire interior space, which takes more time.

The enormous energy requirements of the PTC are a drawback, especially if it needs to be powerful enough to actually make a difference. Furthermore, it requires a running engine. In short-distance operation or with high idling times (e.g., B. (e.g., while stuck in traffic), this device, when used with the lights on, the heater running, etc., can drain the battery even with the engine running!

As far as I know, the Suzuki's coolant circuit wasn't heated. The engine only produced real heat when it was under load. In any case, the coolant temperature gauge regularly went into "sleep mode" and only came out of it during longer highway drives. I'm not sure if that design is a good one. According to the OBD system, water temperatures as low as 70 degrees Celsius were apparently normal, even in sub-zero temperatures.

My current Peugeot has the conventional glow plug heater in the small cooling circuit, which I have supplemented with an "immersion heater" (an aftermarket solution for heating the coolant from the 250V power outlet in my garage). This device is connected to a timer and is switched on in advance for planned trips in the winter. Unfortunately, it shuts off at a water temperature of only 60 degrees Celsius, which I find very disappointing. At least it's enough to move the coolant thermometer needle about 2/3 of the way towards the "warm" state. The rest of the process is quite quick, as long as you don't remove too much heat from the interior using the heating system during the first few kilometers.

By the way, this is also a characteristic that I hadn't encountered before: If I let the engine warm up for the first few kilometers, it heats up quickly and then it's very difficult to cool down later, even with the heater turned on. If I turn on the heating immediately after starting it, it takes a very long time to warm up, and the heating output remains low for a long time.

While the Suzuki experienced a noticeable increase in fuel consumption during the winter, the Peugeot's increase remained within very manageable limits. Perhaps it's because I largely avoid cold starts with the "immersion heater"?