ESP Leak / Seals: Causes & Solutions

Hello forum.

"I've been using RME fuel for 120,000 km, but recently (for the past 5 weeks), I've been adding 10-20% oil to the RME. After 3,000 km, my ESP (specifically, the O-ring on the HD head) started leaking."

Today, I removed the ESP (Electronic Stability Program).
Does anyone know if there are more reliable seals available than those from BOSCH?

Has anyone experienced problems with the shaft seal?
I think I should replace the oil pump (Simmering) when the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is being serviced.

Once I have the seals, I will open up the HD head. Hopefully, everything will go smoothly, because this is my first attempt both with the pump and regarding the adjustments.

I have marked the fuel injection pump and bracket to make the assembly process easier.

"However, I don't have a timing light or a VAG 1551 to dynamically check and potentially adjust the injection timing."

Perhaps there's someone in Munich or from the surrounding area who could potentially administer this exam for me?
Of course, everything comes with a price.

Otherwise, I would have to go to a friendly car dealership or Bosch.

Thank you for your interest.

Hi Jarek,

Did you not use the search function?

Check out what I posted a few days ago:
I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.

m;

Hi Dieselmartin.

I already read your report earlier, and the photos by Uwe Reimann, including the introduction, are all excellent.

I also checked the PÖL website for information on more stable biodiesel seals, which was actually my main question.

Replacing the seals is not a problem for me. I would simply like to know a reliable source for seals that are suitable for biodiesel (fluoropolymers), as opposed to standard diesel seals, which are made of nitrile rubber and are not suitable for biodiesel.

So far, I haven't found a delivery address for biodiesel seals.

If anyone needs more information, please send a brief message.

On Saturday, I want to install the ESP. It's urgent.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards, Jarek.

Hi!

'This doesn't directly answer your question, but here's a photo tutorial on how to seal a Bosch ESP.'

http://www.uwereimann.de/poel/esp-hd.htm

How leaky is your ESP? Mine is always a little damp underneath, but nothing is dripping onto the road yet. It's still being driven like that.

hello
Holger.

PS: Under no circumstances should you refuel with 'Mineraldiesel' now, as this will worsen the leak in the already damaged seals!

Hello Jarek,

Adding a small amount of rapeseed oil to the RME had the same effect for me.
Just refilled the RME tank, and the ESP is working properly again.

'To the best of my knowledge, RME-resistant sealing sets are no longer available because of a lack of demand. I inquired about them about a year ago. I don't understand this, as the demand seems to be higher than ever...'
The sealing ring from Dieselsend isn't any more stable than the one from Bosch. The only difference is that Henzo includes the wave ring. Mine is a little leaky, so the timing chain cover is already a bit damp. To avoid the risk of a timing chain rupture, I'll be resealing my ESP soon. You can also find technical reports and instructions on this topic in our forum.

Saturday is over, so please tell me how the repair went.

Best regards, Georg.

Hello Holger,

I've already seen Uwe Reimann's report; it's mentioned in my post to dieselmartin. Still, thank you.

My ESP is leaking badly. When the engine is running, it's spraying out of the bottom of the head like a Gardena sprinkler system. To be able to drive into the underground garage, I had to stuff a lot of rags under the pump.

Hello Gregor,

I think I wouldn't be able to get a completely tight seal with the ESP and RME. It leaked quite a bit towards the end.

The pump is on the table, and I'm waiting for the seals.

I have a Bosch O-ring at home, but I want to install ones that are definitely compatible with biodiesel. I plan to do it next Saturday. If I'm going to do it, I might as well do it properly.

I've obviously checked out many forums and found reports from Henzo and others dating back to 2003, which suggest that VITON RME should be resistant.

You contradict this claim in your report.

Some participants in this forum have also installed new seals, which leaked after only 3,000 kilometers.

I only know that VITON Original is the trademark of Dupont de Nemours.

On the website www.Rexio.de (Rexio Elastomertechnik), under the heading "SCHLÄCHE", the following should be displayed:
-VITON- and fluor elastomer hoses. Fluor elastomer is considered resistant to RME (statement of a plastics engineer).

I am not aware of the material from which VITON seals are made.

That's why I also contacted Henzo-Dieselsend, because I had read his forum posts on PÖL websites from 2003. These posts indicate that VITON RME is stable.

He should actually know, since he sells poetry books.
"Should we also get feedback from people who actually install the seals?"

I still haven't found anyone who supplies fluoroelastomer seals!

I don't know if VITON is the same thing as a fluoroelastomer.

Due to urgency and lack of time, I also ordered a Viton seal kit for the diesel sender.

I heard from a truck driver that they inquired with MAN about the approval for biodiesel. Some of their vehicles have been running on biodiesel, but due to clogged filters, they are now using a mixture of diesel and biodiesel that is approved by MAN. As far as I understand, the mixture must be at least 50/50. He doesn't know the exact ratio because they are supplied with a ready-made mixture.
I know that many shipping companies use biodiesel as fuel.

Here is my question:
- What types of seals do the truck manufacturers use?
- Who is Belifert?

Volkswagen conducted its first biodiesel experiments as early as the early 1980s. I read about it in VDI reports years ago.

That's why I find it very disappointing that neither VW nor Bosch have managed to resolve the issue with the seals to this day.
Is there a system behind this?

Greetings to everyone.

Hi Jarek,

...
I've obviously checked out many forums and found reports from Henzo and others dating back to 2003, which suggest that VITON RME should be resistant.

You contradict this claim in your report.
...
That's why I also contacted Henzo-Dieselsend, because I had read his forum posts on PÖL websites from 2003. These posts indicate that VITON RME is stable.

He should actually know, since he sells poetry books.
'Should we also get feedback from people who actually install the seals?'

I still haven't found anyone who supplies Fluorelastomer seals!

...
That's also how I came across Henzo.
Regarding my inquiry about a VITON gasket set, he unfortunately informed me that his supplier no longer provides gasket sets resistant to RME (biodiesel). I had no other option but to order a standard set, which, according to Henzo, complies with the Bosch standard.
If you've contacted Henzo, then you already have the same information.

I think I'm going to become self-employed...
A gap in the market regarding demand!

And to answer your last question, all I can say is:
We will soon be flying to Mars and digging for substances, some of which are unknown to us. We also have resistant materials ready for that. But when it comes to seals that are resistant to biodiesel, we prefer to go back a few centuries and decide together to stuff a lot of money from ordinary people into our pockets. The money has to be enough to buy up the patents for advanced technologies...
You only need to be realistic to see who is against the RME-resistant seals. I won't even address the oil and automotive industries and the politics dependent on them, but it's also clear to you that Friendly and Bosch can earn more with the new pumps than they can by installing the VITON seal kits...

Hello Georg and Jarek,

It's the same old story.
no, no discussion about RME...

RME is a one-way street, and I'm not even sure if Viton seals will hold up.

However, if you still only want to use RME, then this setting is fine!

@Georg
What are the dimensions of the WDR building? It's possible that I'm still in the cave.
I have quite a few available for TDI engines! Nobody around here } uses them...

BTW, it is possible to replace VE (Variable Valve eActuators) units while they are installed in a WDR (Western Digital Robotics) system. Is this also possible for VP (Valve Positioners) units?

Hello,

Regarding Viton and the material it is made from:

Viton is definitely a perfluorinated elastomer, and as such, it is more resistant to RME (recycled methyl ester) than Butyl/Nitrile rubbers.

Best regards, Georg.

...
However, if you still only want to use RME, then this setting is fine!
...
BTW, den WDR kann man VE´s in eingebautem Zustand tauschen. VP's ????

Without wanting to start a debate, what negative experiences or knowledge can you share regarding 'flagship' products or services?

After sealing the tank, I don't want to use RME (rape methyl ester) anymore because of the 'one-way street' effect; instead, I'll use a mixture with additives.
With this, I do a lot more good for the environment and my wallet...

I will let you know the dimensions of the WDR tomorrow; I don't have them readily available right now.

M.W. ist der WDR bei VP’s genau wie bei VE’s zu tauschen, zumindest will ich’s stark hoffen. Wer kCan Ann confirm this?

Best regards, Georg.

http://www.busakshamban.de/ADMIN/ASSETS/files/o_ring_material_guide_ger.pdf

Hello there.

I've had good experiences with this company here in Austria. They supply pretty much any type of sealing you can imagine. I can't say right now how cost-effective it is for smaller quantities. But the technical support is helpful. They're just around the corner from me, and that's why they've been my first point of contact for "sealing problems" for years.

Best regards, Robert.

After sealing, I don't want to use RME anymore because of the 'one-way street' issue, but rather a mixture with regular diesel.
With this, I'm doing a lot more good for the environment and my wallet... icon_wink.gif

Without wanting to start a discussion, but how can a 'fuel mixture' (which sounds like it contains at least 50% fossil fuel) do more good for the environment than 100% RME (biodiesel)?

And what makes RME more of a one-way street than Pöl? In my opinion, both have the same fundamental problem.

hello
Holger.

RME (Rapeseed Methyl Ester) is produced through a process that requires energy, and I find that wasteful. It would be better to have vehicles that can run on PÖL (presumably a different fuel) directly.
Once you switch to RME, you're committed (because seals may swell and leaks may occur when switching back to regular diesel).

Holger, you're not entirely wrong, but I'm not going to turn this into a discussion...
But precisely because of the 'one-way street' nature of RME, I don't want to constantly have to seal the ESP, whereas Pöl is much more forgiving in that regard...
Let's see how the Dino/RME prices and my daily commutes evolve.
Today, the new high:
Dino: 1.199
RME: 1.039

One-way street: once RME, always RME

Oh, THAT'S what you mean by 'one-way street.' I thought it was meant in an environmental policy context.

Okay, so my ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is starting to show some signs of moisture, and this is after approximately 125,000 km of use, with a mixed fuel usage including mineral diesel, rapeseed methyl ester (RME), and heating oil.
If I were to seal it now with a standard gasket set and assume the same lifespan, I would reach 250,000 km, which is a car's entire lifespan (at least for an Arosa SDI). RME (biodiesel) is always available, so that's not a problem. In my experience, adding a maximum of 1/3 biodiesel does not increase the risk of leaks.

Regarding the common problem of RME and Pöl: The available cultivated areas are not sufficient to fully cover the diesel-powered transportation needs, so it will likely remain a niche solution. Nevertheless, I believe it still has its merits.

Just as bioethanol is the ecological counterpart to diesel for gasoline engines. In Brazil, gasoline engines with special engine control systems that allow for any mixture up to a maximum of 85% ethanol have been standard for years. If you combine such a vehicle with autogas, you have a tri-fuel vehicle. The flexibility in the types of fuel that can be used would stimulate competition in the energy market, which would curb monopolistic practices, as is currently happening in the natural gas market.

Unfortunately, ethanol is politically undesirable in Germany (likely due to lobbying efforts by certain groups). Instead, the major automobile manufacturers are focusing on technically complex designer fuels (synfuels, sunfuels) that can be produced in a few large, centralized facilities, and whose marketing can therefore be much better controlled than many small, decentralized plants for the production of bioethanol or biodiesel. Furthermore, the future generation of engines, according to the visions of V.AG & Co., is supposed to run only on these premium fuels, creating a perfect dependence of consumers on the manufacturers of these fuels and engines.

IMO, a sensible energy mix of fossil fuels and renewable gasoline and diesel fuels would be the most sensible option, also from an economic point of view, in terms of competition and employment policy. Instead of expensive, high-performance diesel fuels that are rigidly tied to a complexly produced premium fuel, I envision:

Internal combustion engines:
- Tri-fuel vehicles will become standard: allowing for any mixture of ethanol and gasoline, plus one type of gas (either propane or natural gas).

Diesel engines:
- Engines are being developed that operate as gasoline engines using natural gas, which has a high resistance to knocking, even though they are designed with a high compression ratio typical of diesel engines. Glow plugs are eliminated because the engine is warmed up using natural gas (spark plugs are used for gasoline operation).
The problem of particulate matter, along with the technically flawed 'particle filter' solution, is eliminated because the engine can be operated as a natural gas-powered gasoline engine below 60 km/h. This means virtually zero emissions in urban areas. The problem of fuel contamination in the oil is also eliminated, as the diesel mode is only activated at higher engine loads.
-RME- and, if applicable, Pöl secondary tank solutions will become standard.

That's all there is to say about what is technically and economically feasible right away, but politically less desirable.

hello
Holger.

Hi.

I received my gasket set from Henzo. The green-marked gaskets are made of VITON; there are only 2 O-rings for the fuel injector adjuster, and the shaft seal is also made of Viton.

"My ESP also had these exact 3 seals, also made of Viton. I also replaced the O-rings for the fuel injector adjuster, and they were just as soft as the new ones. So, the 120,000 km driven with biodiesel didn't change them."
On the other hand, the O-ring on the HD head was flat, hard, and brittle. The difference was like night and day.

There is a specific reason why the ESP is not equipped with VITON seals throughout.

I replaced the Simmering ring and the two O-rings for the fuel injector control valve (one at the front and one at the back of the ESP) and the O-ring for the carburetor top.

When disassembling the HDK, I used two M6*90 screws as guide pins / Tip from Jürgen.

Make sure to raise the HD head slowly!

Lift it about 2 mm and wait a bit for the piston and the two guide pins to come out of the head. They are held in place by the viscosity of the fuel, almost like they are sucked in.
If you do it too quickly, you'll pull the pump pistons and spring pins with their springs upwards.

After that, assembling it would be a bit more difficult because you have to insert the piston correctly.


During assembly, it is possible to insert four guide pins into the head, screw them into the housing, and in this way, insert the head into the pump piston and two guide bolts/springs.

This is a tedious and quite difficult job. I was alone there, and it would have been better to have a second person present. It's absolutely essential to make sure that the two guide pins have been inserted into the HDC head.

Since I was working alone, I had some trouble with this method. Therefore, I inserted the two guide pins (which are located in the springs) into the top part with a little bit of grease, and then inserted the whole assembly into the piston, along with the two springs.

That was much easier and it fit perfectly.

Then, remove two guide pins/M6*90, and screw in two screws.
Removed 2 guide pins/M6*90 and inserted 2 final screws. Done.

My recommendation:
Before disassembling the ESP, place it on the table with the gear facing up and rotate it 360 degrees so you can see how it moves, feel its movement, and hear its sound.
After the ESP is fully assembled, spin it up again to check if everything is working correctly.
If there are noises, something is wrong.

I installed my ESP according to the markings on the bracket and adjusted the timing.
Then I went to the friendly mechanic to have the dynamic alignment checked.
Everything was within the normal range, on the baseline, so they didn't need to make any adjustments. It cost me a reasonable 30 euros in Puchheim. In Munich, it would have cost 70-120 euros.

Tightening torques:
Injection pump rotor, 55 Nm.
Camshaft sprocket, 45 Nm.
Tensioning roller, 20 Nm.
Small swivel castor, 25 Nm.
ESP 25 Nm
Pump head screws, HD part, 12 Nm.

Tools:
Adjustable clamp; 4mm flat iron + 2 wooden clamps / like clothespins for holding.
Set screw; M16*50 screw has a diameter of approximately 15.70mm, and has been ground down to 15.40mm.

Please definitely use the camshaft sprocket holder / The screw is very tightly fastened.
I built it in 15 minutes.
2 flat iron plates: 400x30x5 mm and 160x30x5 mm.
Drill 4 holes, use 3 M8*40 screws and 5 nuts/locknuts / Y-shape.
I didn't have the opportunity to sweat.

Mother's Day cake.
I used an angled pointed pliers for the tensioning roller /Hazet 2587/.

The whole process isn't difficult, but it's also not as simple as it might seem to some people in this forum.
It's helpful to have some experience with tinkering and adjusting timing.



Hi Jarek,