Formsand in der Ladeluftstrecke?

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Hallo,

beim Polo WRC fand ich im Druckschlauch vom Verdichter zum LLK beim km-Stand 2400 eine ziemliche Menge kleiner grünlichgrauer Krümel, siehe Anhang.
Die Krümel glänzen nicht fühlen sich auch nicht wie Metall an, eher wie irgendein Kunststoff.
Das Saugrohr vom LuFiKa zum Verdichter ist sauber. Der Lader läuft unauffällig ohne Pfeifen oder Heulen, schiebt ab ~ 2000rpm an, und die normale Leistung ist da.

Die Posts in einem anderen (nicht offen lesbaren) Forum brachten mich als wahrscheinlichste Erklärung auf Formsand aus der Herstellung des Verdichtergehäuses.
Wenn dem so wäre: Was bedeutet das für meinen Motor mit inzwischen knapp 3Tkm?
Nach meiner Schätzung dürfte er schon so viel von dem Zeug geschluckt haben, dass die Menge, die noch in der Ladeluftstrecke verteilt ist, ihm auch "nichts" mehr ausmachen wird.
Oder sollte ich doch vorsichtshalber die Ladeluftstrecke incl. FMIC so weit wie möglich säubern (anstatt die Arbeiten als vermutlich halbherzig ausgeführte Garantieleistung einzufordern)?

Inwieweit könnte ihn der Sand zum dauerhaften Ölsäufer gemacht haben? Siehe https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=28024

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Quote:

Inwieweit könnte ihn der Sand zum dauerhaften Ölsäufer gemacht haben? Siehe https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=28024

Klarheit verschafft dir eine Endoskopie der Zylinderwände. Schleifspuren von harten Fremdkörpern sind dabei sehr gut zu erkennen.

Ah, thank you.
Do VW workshops typically have the necessary endoscopes as part of their standard equipment? Or, if not, where could I go to obtain or use them?

Sure, here's the translation:

"One more question:"
Can a liquid cooling system with plastic air ducts be flushed with standard diesel fuel without risking later problems such as chemical damage to the plastic (embrittlement, cracks, etc.)?

I would say yes, oil can also be used for that purpose, and diesel is not particularly aggressive.

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Finesand in the intake air path?

Definitely not.
The manufacturing process simply doesn't allow for that.

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To what extent could the sand have made him a lifelong heavy drinker?

Once the particle size and hardness are determined, we can say more about it.

Since the particles in the photo appear to be very fine, it's probably not the case.

Bertil wrote:

Quote: Finesand in the intake air path? Definitely not. That is not allowed by the manufacturing process.

I would think so too.
But in another forum, the owner of a turbocharger specialist company

Quote:

mentioned that I had actually experienced something similar once with a brand new turbocharger, where there was an inclusion in the compressor housing. The customer then wanted to install the turbocharger, but suddenly sand started pouring out of the compressor housing

.
Another user there:

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In the past, real molding sand was used, but nowadays there are also plastic granules that fulfill the same purpose. I think it might be something like that.

"Formed granules seem to me now the most likely explanation for what is actually floating around in my charge air duct: because of the completely uniform (non-sandy) color of all the particles, without any metallic sheen ".

Nonsense!

You seriously believe that the negative form survived multiple washing processes, several machining operations, and further washing processes? It's more likely that there are metal shavings inside.

Okay, du musst also auch an den Weihnachtsmann und den Storch der Kinder bringt glauben.


I assume it's dried-out assembly paste. This stuff dries out, turns gray/white, and is completely harmless when it passes through the engine. It's often used in factories to make the assembly of rubber and plastic parts "smoother." After all, things need to be done quickly...

Even though it contradicts all known casting and manufacturing processes, a replacement glow plug that I was installing in my Passat TD came out of the packaging with fine white sand inside (it was a VW part, under warranty, at the workshop). It was immediately returned.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

... Passat TD ...

Okay, so from over 20 years ago... Back then, there was also a 1000km oil change service... Why, I wonder? I've seen metal shavings in the oil more than once during those oil changes.

And sand doesn't necessarily have to be molding sand; it could also have gotten in through storage or something similar.

Auch Schwachfug....
I'm referring to an original ET part that was delivered directly from the factory. The storage conditions at VW were certainly just as impeccable then as they are today, only with fewer "Mänätschers" (likely a colloquial term for something negative).
By the way, the oil change interval for this model was 7,500 km. 1,000 km per oil change was a thing about 40 years ago, and some of us were still riding tricycles back then.
Best regards.
Herbert.

Hello everyone!

...es ist schon wahnsinnig lang her, daß der DBär im Kreis pissen durfte, gell?
Aber es langweilt. Und nicht nur mich... That's why!

@ulf:
We should go back to basics and start a dedicated forum topic for hypochondria, separate from the actual discussion about the conflict between expertise and (feigned) menstrual complaints of a MALE individual.
...because having to hear fleas coughing beforehand, at best, through a crystal ball, with all due force (@TauBär, sorry! ), no longer fits into the general pattern of this technically sound forum.
Apropos TauBär: Wahrlich der einzig effektiv(!)-produktivSTe Vorschlag: Laß die Haube ZU! ...was hast Du da als "Kunde" innerhalb der Gewährleistungsfrist überhaupt mit Demontagen zu suchen?!! Sollte Dir VW nachweisen können, daß Du da aus offensichtlicher Unterforderung schlechthin rumgefummelt haben solltest, war's das mit der Beweislast(umkehr) und DEN juristisch wertvollen Gegenzug möchte ich sehen!!!
Kurz: Du müßtest Deine Fähigkeiten, Kenntnisse, uva. Aus-/Weiterbildung ÜBER der der Gegenseite VORAB PLAUSIBEL nachweisen können und .. bei DER Denkensart .. JoahPlease provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will then give you only the translation, without any explanations.

@HerBärt:
Thank you again, and once more, for your very insightful contributions!
According to the principle: Age does not protect against punishment!...or was it ignorance? *chuckles*
According to the manufacturer's specifications, a 1,000-mile oil change was not always required, but rather tightening the cylinder head screws!!! Of course, back then, VAG employees were much more intelligent and conveyed this information to customers primarily with a sense of responsibility and professionalism, rather than focusing on commercial aspects. ...and before anyone insists on mandatory adjustments (a new word! *g*) or makes it obligatory at all costs: Please consult the maintenance schedule from that time.
Aber auch hier Hauptsache obligatorisch (zum 3.) das letzte Wort!
The 7:50 PM service used to be a regular offering on the TD lines back then.

@Berti(l):
Well, I'm not really feeling comfortable approaching you right now.


Back to the topic:
@Ulf
Take photos, conduct laboratory analyses of the foreign objects found in the production line, and write to the corporate headquarters again about this issue. However, be aware that you may be creating more problems for yourself than you intend.
...or annoy them even more by adding 10,000 other hairs to the soup.
Nevertheless, I am certainly not the only one who is very interested in how far the frustration tolerance of such a corporation will extend .

In this spirit.

Best regards from Munich!

I still don't fully understand why a new car would be disassembled, but it has now happened, and what one thinks about that is... irrelevant (although I also believe that all this tinkering could potentially cause significant problems in the event of an accident).
But:
Da muss ich Bertil widersprechen. Mein Arbeitgeber baut Industrieöfen und dadurch auch öfters mal Gießereien. In den letzten Jahren ist, gerade in der KFZ Branche und da allen voran bei den deutschen Herstellern größtenteils auf anorganischen Binder gewechselt worden. Dies in Verbindung mit nahezu biblischen Problemen während dem Guss. Schön ist natürlich, dass die neue VW Gießerei komplett weiß ist und nicht mehr die Siffbude von vor 5 Jahren, das war's aber schon mit (fast) mit den Vorteilen, gut das gehört nicht hierher. Der Turbolader wird auch wahrscheinlich nicht aus Deutschland kommen. Regarding the cleaning of products after they've been rejected, I've seen a lot in that area, so it's theoretically possible.

Okay, if I were to go back to the main topic and examine the charge air cooler hose, I have a feeling that these "foreign objects" are mainly located in the sealing area, and that's how they got there during the assembly process, where they still are now. That makes sense, because everything else would have been blown out. So, I'm back to Bertil and his assembly aid.

"Foundry sand" is naturally different from "play sand." In fact, it's a very scarce resource (whether you believe it or not). Grain size, surface area, and purity all play a role. I've seen every shade of color imaginable. However, the engine wouldn't care whether it was foundry sand or sand from an improper storage location. The problem is: if it were foundry sand from the repeatedly processed metal part of the turbocharger, it would have long since disappeared and not be found in the seal...

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...und bevor obligatorische Nachmotzungen (neues Wort! *g*) sowie auch obligatorisch um jeden Preis kommen: Gehst Du guggen Wartungsplan von damals....

Sure, off-topic for forum colleagues who like to tease: You only know about maintenance schedules from stories your grandpa used to tell you.
hg
Herbert.

Quote:

Do you really believe that the negative form survived multiple washing processes, multiple machining operations, and further washing processes? It's more likely that there are metal shavings inside.

It's conceivable that this could have happened – perhaps when the negative image wasn't entirely stable, and a few "grains" from a thin aluminum layer were obscuring it, only to flake off later.

Honestly, don't worry about a few crumbs. You should see what the intercooler intakes look like on vehicles that use dry cotton filters (sports air filters). You'll find a kind of "grinding paste" in the quieter areas (hose connections, intercooler, etc.).
These engines, surprisingly, can last well over 100,000 km .

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

I still don't fully understand the process of disassembling a new car, but it has now happened, and what one thinks about that...doesn't matter

. I had "only" removed one hose to estimate the amount of oil in the intercooler system - the reason: see my topic on the CDL's oil consumption.

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If I were to go back to the topic and examine the charge air hose, I have the impression that these "foreign objects" are mainly located in the sealing area, and therefore came there during the assembly process where they still are now. That makes sense, because the rest would be blown away. So, I'm back to Bertil with his assembly aid.

This explanation seems most plausible to me so far, also because of the significantly different grain sizes, which are typical for other dried-out materials (window sealant, clay, paints, etc.).
Or could residues of foundry sand or plastic granules have a similar particle size distribution?
The many granules on the sealing surface initially suggest the use of a mounting aid. However, unfortunately, I had already wiped the area directly behind the sealing surface with my finger before taking the photo, and I may have spread some of it onto the sealing surface in the process .
(I no longer remember whether the sealing surface was verschandeln beforehand ).

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To be honest: don't worry about a few crumbs. You should see what the intercooler intakes of vehicles running with dry cotton filters (sports air filters) look like. In quieter areas (hose connections, intercooler, etc.), you find a kind of "grinding paste" there.

My worst-case scenario thoughts also go in the direction of clogged crumbs in valve seat seals: If a valve doesn't close properly because of this, apparently glowing exhaust gases can leak past, and it could warp... or am I wrong about that?