VCDS and OBD diagnostic device in the On-Board Diagnostics Shop
Diesel technology, engine technology, vehicle diagnostics, repair & maintenance.

Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion

 
Go to page: 1, 2, 3  Next
New Topic Reply 🔗 🖨 Dieselschrauber - Index » Diesel Engine Technology
Author Message
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 16:16    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Hi.

I just had my BMR serviced at the (Volkswagen) workshop.

Previously, with a warm engine idling, I had a crankshaft angle of 0.35°.
Code:

17:21:15 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
  801 /min  Motordrehzahl (G28)
  5.0 °n.OT  Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
  3.7°KW  Förderdauer (Sollwert)
  0.35°  Verdrehwinkel


Now, after the change (engine not yet fully warm, idling), it's 2.23°.
Code:

16:00:31 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
  800 /min  Motordrehzahl (G28)
  5.0 °n.OT  Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
  4.0°KW  Förderdauer (Sollwert)
  2.23°  Verdrehwinkel

Should I complain about this, or am I just being too picky?

m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
dieselschrauber
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar-dieselschrauber

Joined: 04/12/2002
Posts: 18003
Karma: +784 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: St.Gallen
2018 Volkswagen T6 Consumption


Post18-06-2015, 16:29    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Wasn't there something about the direction (+/-) and the timing belt length?
I'm looking for a picture or diagram showing the timing belt routing during a timing belt replacement.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM WWW Garage
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 16:32    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Do you mean that the price is still going to increase?

And if so, does it continue to move towards 0.0?

m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
dieselschrauber
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar-dieselschrauber

Joined: 04/12/2002
Posts: 18003
Karma: +784 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: St.Gallen
2018 Volkswagen T6 Consumption


Post18-06-2015, 16:35    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

IMHO, it should be adjusted slightly later due to belt stretch and the position of the adjuster. +2°KW I would just leave it as is , but it's already trending towards being too late.

Here's something else about the rotation angle:
Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate.

Best regards, Rainer.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM WWW Garage
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 16:40    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

I'm just seeing that the golf ball had a handicap of -2.5 before the change, and it was also working perfectly fine.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
ulf
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 04/13/2002
Posts: 11058
Karma: +18 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: Saarland
2023 MG ZS
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 16:56    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Do you know the sign conventions?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late ignition timing, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power output.
In a WOT (Wide Open Throttle) log, up to the maximum pressure (Pmax), the compression ratio increases, and the twist angle becomes increasingly "positive" with increasing engine speed.

If you don't already have a BMR log, you might want to get one done.
Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 17:18    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Hm,

Damn, things are getting complicated.

Because I have two camshafts... and also two camshaft gears.

m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
ulf
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 04/13/2002
Posts: 11058
Karma: +18 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: Saarland
2023 MG ZS
Premium Support

Post18-06-2015, 17:57    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

With a northwest orientation?
Probably not, unless the suspected calibration errors are resolved...
Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
dieselschrauber
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar-dieselschrauber

Joined: 04/12/2002
Posts: 18003
Karma: +784 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: St.Gallen
2018 Volkswagen T6 Consumption


Post18-06-2015, 19:44    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Quote:
Do you know the sign convention?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late NW (negative working stroke) adjustment, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power (Pmax).

Sure?


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM WWW Garage
Autoservice
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-Autoservice

Joined: 04/14/2012
Posts: 2130
Karma: +99 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: Nähe Düsseldorf

Support

Post18-06-2015, 23:06    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Quote:
For a 1.9 PD, positive values indicate a late northwest adjustment
.

That's how I remember it too. If the Northwest wind is lagging by 2.5°KW, it should likely lag even more over time. I believe 3° is probably at the limit of the acceptable tolerance.

"With the 1.9 engine, you could observe how the synchronization behaved when revving it up." Angle direction + moved...

So... personally, I would have that corrected.
LG, Onkel BM

*Nichts ist einfacher, als sich schwierig auszudrücken......*

**Technische Fragen bitte ins Forum und nicht in mein Postfach**


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post19-06-2015, 1:22    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

How is this actually corrected?

In the repair instructions for replacing the timing belt, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.

However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole to the locating hole.

Which one do you correct, both of them?

Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.

Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
vwSchrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 09/18/2008
Posts: 1262
Karma: +42 / -0   Thank you, like it!


Support

Post19-06-2015, 10:06    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Where is the Northwest position sensor located?

In my opinion, the relevant regulation for the behavior described by Ulf is the EinlassNW.
selber schrauben - statt Werkstattpfusch


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM
dieselschrauber
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar-dieselschrauber

Joined: 04/12/2002
Posts: 18003
Karma: +784 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: St.Gallen
2018 Volkswagen T6 Consumption


Post19-06-2015, 10:26    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

dieselmartin wrote:
How is that actually corrected?

In the repair instructions for replacing the timing belt, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.

However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole to the locating hole.

Which one do you correct, both of them?

Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.

Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now.

I have some elongated holes in the camshaft sprocket. /viewtopic.php?t=26285

I need to check the twist angle/synchronization angle on my setup. I think I intentionally set it slightly away from "zero" – if that was the wrong direction, that would be a problem...
Edit: Okay, it seems I was right after all, so "-" indicates early!



Synchronisationswinkel-Verdrehwinkel.jpg
 Description:
 Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion
 File size:  151.04 KB
 Viewed:  5594 times

Synchronisationswinkel-Verdrehwinkel.jpg



Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM WWW Garage
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post19-06-2015, 11:13    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Yes.

but:

Only the front, intake camshaft is being measured.

If I now loosen the long bolts, I will change the measured value in VCDS, specifically the timing of these camshafts. I can also check that using VCDS.

But what should I do with the camshaft lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have any measurements for that.
How do I adjust the 0.7 degrees differently? Surely, no one can determine that with their eyes on the camshaft sprocket?

m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
dieselschrauber
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar-dieselschrauber

Joined: 04/12/2002
Posts: 18003
Karma: +784 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: St.Gallen
2018 Volkswagen T6 Consumption


Post19-06-2015, 11:16    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

Quote:
But what should I do with the cam lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that.

You adjust it so that, when the belts are installed, both camshafts can be locked in place. "The 'slots' actually secure the waves, not the wheels."

dieselschrauber wrote:
...So, when buying a timing belt kit, you can often find a crankshaft pulley timing pin included, which is often sold as a set with a matching dowel pin for the camshaft gears. Since you actually need 2 alignment pins, or it's advisable to use them, you can just as easily use a Torx screw of a similar diameter for the second camshaft gear...


Best regards, Rainer.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM WWW Garage
dieselmartin
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber
Avatar-dieselmartin

Joined: 03/13/2003
Posts: 10121
Karma: +29 / -0   Thank you, like it!
Location: in der Werkstatt
2007 Volkswagen Passat
Premium Support

Post19-06-2015, 11:19    Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion Quote

dieselschrauber wrote:
Quote:
But what should I do with the eccentric cam - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that.

You adjust it so that, when the belts are installed, both camshafts can be locked in place. "The 'slots' actually secure the waves, not the wheels."

Best regards, Rainer


OK, thank you.

next question:

Quote:

extra something placed next to "zero".


And how? "Especially, how exactly does that work?"
In the rep thread, you should push the bypass wheel backward/to the left.
So, did you press harder or softer?
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.

I don't know what the f*ck it was.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
Back to top Profile PM Garage
New Topic Reply 🔗 🖨 Dieselschrauber - Index » Diesel Engine Technology
Go to page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Similar articles and topics
Topic Forum
No new posts Doku MKB ABC, schlechter Motorstart nach MSG-Wechsel Faults & Documentation (Audi, VW, Seat/Cupra, Skoda)
No new posts Touran GRA funktioniert nicht nach STG Wechsel Faults & Documentation (Audi, VW, Seat/Cupra, Skoda)
No new posts Replacement of injector nozzles/holders on a VP-TDI Troubleshooting & Guides
No new posts BMR unrund nach PPD Wechsel Diesel Engine Technology
No new posts Performance loss after ZR change On-Board Diagnostics (OBD)
No new posts AFN nach ZKD-Wechsel Leistungsverlust. Turbo? Diesel Engine Technology
No new posts AXR starker Leistungsverlust nach ZKD Wechsel Diesel Engine Technology
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.