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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:16 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Hi.
I just had my BMR serviced at the (Volkswagen) workshop.
Previously, with a warm engine idling, I had a crankshaft angle of 0.35°.
Code: |
17:21:15 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
801 /min Motordrehzahl (G28)
5.0 °n.OT Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
3.7°KW Förderdauer (Sollwert)
0.35° Verdrehwinkel
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Now, after the change (engine not yet fully warm, idling), it's 2.23°.
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16:00:31 Block 004: Ansteuerung Pumpe-Düse Ventile
800 /min Motordrehzahl (G28)
5.0 °n.OT Förderbeginn (Sollwert)
4.0°KW Förderdauer (Sollwert)
2.23° Verdrehwinkel
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Should I complain about this, or am I just being too picky?
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18003 Karma: +784 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 16:29 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Wasn't there something about the direction (+/-) and the timing belt length?
I'm looking for a picture or diagram showing the timing belt routing during a timing belt replacement.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:32 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Do you mean that the price is still going to increase?
And if so, does it continue to move towards 0.0?
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18003 Karma: +784 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 16:35 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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IMHO, it should be adjusted slightly later due to belt stretch and the position of the adjuster. +2°KW I would just leave it as is , but it's already trending towards being too late.
Here's something else about the rotation angle:
Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate.
Best regards, Rainer.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:40 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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I'm just seeing that the golf ball had a handicap of -2.5 before the change, and it was also working perfectly fine.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 16:56 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Do you know the sign conventions?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late ignition timing, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power output.
In a WOT (Wide Open Throttle) log, up to the maximum pressure (Pmax), the compression ratio increases, and the twist angle becomes increasingly "positive" with increasing engine speed.
If you don't already have a BMR log, you might want to get one done.
Gruß Ulf
_________
MG4 Electric
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 17:18 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Hm,
Damn, things are getting complicated.
Because I have two camshafts... and also two camshaft gears.
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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18-06-2015, 17:57 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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With a northwest orientation?
Probably not, unless the suspected calibration errors are resolved...
Gruß Ulf
_________
MG4 Electric
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18003 Karma: +784 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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18-06-2015, 19:44 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Quote: | Do you know the sign convention?
For a 1.9 PD engine, positive values indicate a late NW (negative working stroke) adjustment, which typically results in a high torque peak but a lower peak power (Pmax). |
Sure?
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Autoservice Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 04/14/2012 Posts: 2130 Karma: +99 / -0 Location: Nähe Düsseldorf
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18-06-2015, 23:06 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Quote: | | For a 1.9 PD, positive values indicate a late northwest adjustment | .
That's how I remember it too. If the Northwest wind is lagging by 2.5°KW, it should likely lag even more over time. I believe 3° is probably at the limit of the acceptable tolerance.
"With the 1.9 engine, you could observe how the synchronization behaved when revving it up." Angle direction + moved...
So... personally, I would have that corrected.
LG, Onkel BM
*Nichts ist einfacher, als sich schwierig auszudrücken......*
**Technische Fragen bitte ins Forum und nicht in mein Postfach**
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 1:22 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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How is this actually corrected?
In the repair instructions for replacing the timing belt, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.
However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole to the locating hole.
Which one do you correct, both of them?
Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.
Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now.
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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vwSchrauber Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 09/18/2008 Posts: 1262 Karma: +42 / -0
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19-06-2015, 10:06 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Where is the Northwest position sensor located?
In my opinion, the relevant regulation for the behavior described by Ulf is the EinlassNW.
selber schrauben - statt Werkstattpfusch
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18003 Karma: +784 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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19-06-2015, 10:26 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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dieselmartin wrote: | How is that actually corrected?
In the repair instructions for replacing the timing belt, the camshaft wheels are only temporarily fixed in place.
However, the NW gears have teeth on the opposite side of the hole to the locating hole.
Which one do you correct, both of them?
Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.
Our 1.9 BLS engine had a compression ratio of -2.5 before the top ring replacement.
After that, -2.9..-3.4 (I just found that in my notes).
That was in October 2013... I need to check that now. |
I have some elongated holes in the camshaft sprocket. /viewtopic.php?t=26285
I need to check the twist angle/synchronization angle on my setup. I think I intentionally set it slightly away from "zero" – if that was the wrong direction, that would be a problem...
Edit: Okay, it seems I was right after all, so "-" indicates early!
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Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 11:13 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Yes.
but:
Only the front, intake camshaft is being measured.
If I now loosen the long bolts, I will change the measured value in VCDS, specifically the timing of these camshafts. I can also check that using VCDS.
But what should I do with the camshaft lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have any measurements for that.
How do I adjust the 0.7 degrees differently? Surely, no one can determine that with their eyes on the camshaft sprocket?
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselschrauber Administrator


Joined: 04/12/2002 Posts: 18003 Karma: +784 / -0 Location: St.Gallen 2018 Volkswagen T6 
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19-06-2015, 11:16 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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Quote: | | But what should I do with the cam lobe - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that. |
You adjust it so that, when the belts are installed, both camshafts can be locked in place. "The 'slots' actually secure the waves, not the wheels."
dieselschrauber wrote: | | ...So, when buying a timing belt kit, you can often find a crankshaft pulley timing pin included, which is often sold as a set with a matching dowel pin for the camshaft gears. Since you actually need 2 alignment pins, or it's advisable to use them, you can just as easily use a Torx screw of a similar diameter for the second camshaft gear... |
Best regards, Rainer.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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19-06-2015, 11:19 Subject: Rotation angle after Z-axis inversion |
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dieselschrauber wrote: | Quote: | | But what should I do with the eccentric cam - it also has elongated holes, but I don't have a measurement for that. |
You adjust it so that, when the belts are installed, both camshafts can be locked in place. "The 'slots' actually secure the waves, not the wheels."
Best regards, Rainer |
OK, thank you.
next question:
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extra something placed next to "zero".
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And how? "Especially, how exactly does that work?"
In the rep thread, you should push the bypass wheel backward/to the left.
So, did you press harder or softer?
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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