R5 TDI Oil Consumption / Alternative Oils?

Hello,

am Sonntag fuhr ich zu einem Kollegen in die Schweiz. Im Pfändertunnel (Bodensee) machte es PIEP aus dem Kombiinstrument und es leuchtete 'Ölstand prüfen'. Da ich nach dem Tunnel sowieso tanken wollte, kam das relativ gut gelegen. Dummerweise habe ich einfach nur einen halben Liter Öl (0W30), von den mehreren Flaschen, die noch in der Reseveradmulde vom Vorbesitzer lagen, nachgefüllt und nicht nachgesehen, wieviel denn wirklich fehlt. --> An der Tankstelle war irre viel los... Es warteten schon 2 Autos nach mir recht ungeduldig... Da habe ich schlichtweg nicht darangedacht. Jedenfalls habe ich heute beim Tanken in meiner Heimat nochmals den Ölstand kontrolliert... SCHOCK..!!! Der Ölmeßstab war nur noch ganz unten, also schon unter minimum, voller Öl. Ich musste dann tatsächlich einen Liter Öl nachfüllen. Seit dem letzten KD bin ich 10000km gefahren. Darf denn dann beim R5TDI wirklich schon 'so viel' Öl fehlen? Ich kenne das noch von meinem vorherigen V6 TDI (2,5l), der brauchte vom dem Longlife-Öl je nach Fahrweise, mal mehr oder mal weniger Öl. Erst nachdem ich dann ein anderes Öl eingefüllt habe und auf den Longlife-Service verzichtet habe, musste ich nie wieder Öl nachfüllen. Daher jetzt eine Grundlegende Frage: Kann ich bei dem R5TDI-Motor auch ein anderes Öl verwenden und stattdessen auf den LL-Service verzichten? Ich denke da an das hochwertige Öl von CASTROL: RS10W60. Dies wird von vielen Tunern sowie auch im Motorsport verwendet. Was meint Ihr? M'a' couldn't give me a precise answer as to whether the engine could also use a different type of oil.



Best regards,
Marcus.

How many miles/kilometers has your R5 driven?

Regardless, 1 liter per 10,000 km is perfectly acceptable.
I don't know of any turbocharger that never needs oil.
If you take good care of it, you shouldn't really worry about oil consumption; it shouldn't leak oil, and if it does, letting it cool down slightly after a hot drive should resolve the issue.

Also, you should check the oil level every other time you fill up the gas tank.
I do that too, especially before longer highway trips.
My car's oil consumption is about 1/2 liter per 7000 km, but it has already driven 225,000 km.

Whether or not Castrol 10W60 is a high-quality product is debatable.
Certainly, it is not necessary to add 60-grade oil to a diesel engine.
A diesel engine isn't known for its high RPMs, so for year-round operation, 5W-40 or 10W-40 oils (with the appropriate VW specification 505.XXX) are generally the most suitable options.

You only need oil specifically designed for the pump-injector system if you don't want to use longlife oil; in that case, you need 50501. If you want to use longlife oil, you need 50601 (which you can find online for the same price). And if the car has a DPF, you need 50700. We recently had a thread from Martin about oil; take a look at it.

I would recommend using a 5W40 505.01 oil, i.e., one with PD approval and full synthetic oils. I have used this in a 2001 Fabia, 74 kW, with service intervals of 15,000 km: with no measurable oil consumption over 130,000 km. Since I started driving a 74 kW engine in a 2003 Passat, I have experimented with 506.01 (0W30) and 507.00 (5W30) oils. I experienced about 100 ml of oil consumption per 1,000 km with these oils. Currently, I am using M 1 0W40 without VW PD approval, and I have consumed 200 ml in 8,000 km. Therefore, I believe that using a full synthetic oil is a good idea. I am not aware of any 507.00 (HC oils). The 506.01 oils are definitely not recommended due to the reduced HTHS value. However, it all depends on how long you want to drive the engine under what conditions, and whether you want to minimize oil consumption. 10W60 is also probably not recommended, or are you only using it in the summer and for long-distance, high-performance driving?
haithamina

Hello,

Thank you in advance for your replies.

The engine now has 107,000 kilometers on it.
I also think the oil consumption is quite acceptable.

The Touareg isn't exactly a car designed for 'full-throttle' driving.
But if I ever do need to tow something, it's usually...
quite heavily loaded.
I also enjoy occasionally driving at 180 km/h using cruise control on the...
BAB. That way, I can watch it in a short amount of time.
How the oil temperature rises quickly.
130°C.

I know that 0W30 oil is already very thin.
If it also gets hot, then I think...
It probably can't be as good as a thicker one.
And as mentioned before.
'With my previous Passat V6 TDI, I had issues with the longlife oil.'
Always the same problem.
Once I drove fast on the highway, and the engine components were everywhere.
covered in oil, despite having new seals.
Only after I switched to 10W60 oil,
That was the end of it.
The consumption was so low, regardless of how fast or...
I drove slowly, so that I could see the intervals.
didn't have to refill anything.
And the engine had clearly been significantly upgraded in terms of power.

What about the LL-3 oil?
That must be the 5W30.

I don't have a DPF. I definitely won't put up with that nonsense.
Do not install.

Regards,
Marcus.

R5 tires with your vehicle's production year are NOT approved for use in LL3 conditions.
Just drive the LL2 according to standard 50601, and that's all there is to it.
And your oil consumption is perfectly fine; I'd say you got a good example that has a normal consumption rate.

As I mentioned in my previous post, you can safely ignore Volkswagen's restriction to LL2 / 506.01. There's no technical reason why the supposedly "better" LL3 oil would damage the engine, except perhaps that it might not meet the required emissions standards.

Here's a question: How do you come to the conclusion that it's okay to refill LL3? I'm extremely interested in knowing.

The 507.00 specification is superior to the 506.01 specification in all aspects that are important for an engine. The only difference is that the higher HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) value may slightly increase fuel consumption and, consequently, emissions.

tdi pumpe düse wrote:

Just a question, how do you come to the conclusion that you can also safely fill LL3?

I would be very interested to know.

LL3 replaces LL2.
Those who were previously authorized to use LL2 can now use LL3.
Furthermore, LL3 can also be used in older TDI engines, which is not permitted with LL2 due to its thinner viscosity.


And one more thing to Snowman24 regarding high temperatures:
The SLX 0W-30 and LL3 5W-30 oils contain a high concentration of viscosity index improvers (VIIs).
These are ring-shaped molecules that unroll as the temperature increases, thereby improving the viscosity. Of course, it becomes thinner overall compared to room temperature. However, even at high temperatures, it remains sufficiently viscous in relation to its initial state.
You can be sure that VW designed this engine to withstand full throttle operation, and that the specified oils have an adequate safety margin.
I would definitely advise against using Castrol RS 10W-60 in this engine, as it is too viscous during cold starts, especially in winter. I used it once in my TDI six years ago, and it was a disaster compared to SLX. The engine ran very unevenly.
Now, I use Castrol LL3 in my A3, manufactured in March 1997. It's, by far, the best oil available on the market.

christians wrote:

507.00 is superior to 506.01 in every aspect that is important for an engine.

Tagessuppe wrote:

LL3 replaces LL2. Those who were previously authorized to use LL2 can now use LL3. Furthermore, LL3 can also be used in older TDI engines, which is not permitted with LL2 due to its thinner viscosity.

Meeeeeeeep!

WRONG!

It's important to note that there's a difference between whether an engine is approved for use with mineral oil (HC oil) or synthetic oil. Mineral oil doesn't necessarily have to be superior to synthetic oil. In fact, depending on the engine design, mineral oil can even be significantly inferior.

Just take a look at the product information for LL3 (Top TEC 4200) oil on the LM website:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/web/lmhomede.nsf/pages/products?OpenDocument&Param=3:schmierstoffemotorenoele4taktautosynthesetechnologie

Application: Specifically developed for gasoline and diesel vehicles of the Audi and VW group. LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles in which the Volkswagen standards 500 00 / 501 01 / 502 00 / 505 00 / 505 01 / 503 00 / 503 01 / 506 00 and 506 01 (excluding R5 and V10 TDI engines produced before 6/2006) are required.

The same statement applies to Castrol:
http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.nsf/technicaldata/4A424B8B07D0AD13C12571AA00453E1A?OpenDocument

... Castrol EDGE 5W-30 was developed in collaboration with Volkswagen and is precisely tailored to the latest VW specifications VW 504 00 and 507 00. Castrol EDGE 5W-30 can be used in almost all VW engines (except for R5 and V10 TDI pump-injector engines as well as 3- and 4-cylinder pump-injector engines without LongLife service). ...



Lubricant manufacturers don't just write that information down for fun.

Of course, lubricant manufacturers don't write those specifications just for fun. If they were to deviate from the factory standards, they would ultimately have to deal with claims for damages in the event of any engine damage, no matter how it occurred.

I don't understand how a lubricant with a viscosity grade of 507.00 could cause damage to an engine designed for a 506.01 specification. All the properties I'm familiar with, such as wear protection, extreme pressure performance, oxidation stability, and of course, the HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) viscosity, are better for the engine.

I am not aware of any manufacturer's specifications that explicitly require a synthetic or HC-based product.
The differences are not that significant if the oil is generally of good quality. Furthermore, synthetic oil would only make sense for engines under extreme stress, not the other way around.

christians wrote:

... I don't understand how a lubricant with a viscosity grade of 507.00 could cause damage to an engine designed for a 506.01 specification. All the properties I'm familiar with, such as wear protection, extreme pressure performance, oxidation stability, and of course, the HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) viscosity, are better for the engine. ...

Think about the differences between the R5/V10 TDI and the 4-cylinder TDI engines, paying particular attention to the NW drive system! Then you should understand why older R5/V10 TDIs cannot handle a 50700.

Great, Bertil.
Before these findings remain hidden from others: What properties of the R5 and V10 TDI engines necessitate the restriction to specification 506.01? As far as I can tell, the differences between specifications 506.01 and 507.00 mainly involve DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) load (which is not engine-related), base oil (HC, or rarely synthetic), a lower HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear) value for 506.01 (which can be negative at high engine temperatures), and lubrication/friction in cold conditions (differences between 0W and 5W viscosity grades).
haithamina

I had already thought about that BEFORE. However, I still don't understand why pinion gears need a specific type of oil. Or is there some kind of friction-based damping mechanism inside that becomes ineffective due to an excess of friction reducers?

christians wrote:

... I still don't understand why timing gears supposedly require a specific type of oil. ...

Who is saying that 50601 is a worse oil?
It absolutely is!

Quote:

Or is there a friction-based damping mechanism inside, which becomes ineffective due to an excess of friction reducers?

Possible.
Only the developer of the system can tell you that.
Up until mid-2006, some changes were made to the engines, including the bevel gear module. "Coincidentally," the engine has been approved for use with the 50700 model since then. However, for all ZR engines, whether it's the 50601 or the 50700 model, it doesn't matter.