Larger Injectors: Installation Possible on PD Engines

Just out of curiosity:

The tuning tips regarding installing larger injectors apply to engines with a distributor injection pump, right?
Can larger injector elements be installed in common rail diesel engines?
If so, what are the sizes of the different engines?

Spending 500 EUR on a PD element is a nice idea.


m;

Wow, 500 euros, but if you calculate it that way, it seems cheaper than getting a proper chip installed, right?

A good chip for a PD (presumably referring to a specific type of device or application) usually costs over 500 euros, right?

Will PD controllers soon be offered on eBay instead of power cables?

Hello? Four times 500 euros is 2000 euros. That's probably cheaper than almost any chip...

Hello,

I have some doubts as to whether replacing a PD injector can be as straightforward as replacing a VP 37 nozzle.

It starts with the seals between the diesel fuel supply line and the return line, as well as the seals between the fuel injectors and the crankcase, and extends to the precise external dimensions of the injectors.

Then there's the likely different fuel injection characteristic/rate, which, in my opinion, is more likely to push the idle control outside the normal range than "faulty" injectors on a VP37 pump.

What about the cam profile of the original PD cam and the allowable lift of the new injector?

And and and...

Oops , I was only expecting one pump nozzle element .

ulf wrote:

It starts with the seals between the diesel fuel supply line and the return line, as well as the seals between the fuel injectors and the crankcase, and extends to the precise external dimensions of the injectors.

Hi Ulf,

So, in my engine, the PD elements are installed in the cylinder head. Also, the inlet and outlet lines are located in the cylinder head in my engine.
Is that different with the 130 HP Polo?

The injectors are all exactly the same size. Replacing them is also a simple process. However, the alignment of the components must be done with extreme precision, as the fuel lines run through the head and the components only fit together by tolerance. If one component is rotated, it may receive less fuel.

dieselmartin wrote:

Since a PD element costs 500 EUR, it's a nice idea to spend money.-)

It's strange that a set with 4 PD elements is available for €1295 (and I even bought it just a few weeks ago).



Replacing the PD elements is similar to installing VEP injectors and the corresponding nozzles in a VP engine (but it's significantly more expensive!). Both modifications increase the fuel flow (be careful of soot!). However, without adjusting the engine's electronics, this engine will produce excessive soot. The correct turbocharger should also be installed, as increasing the boost pressure with a smaller turbocharger is not recommended.

The enormous potential for using identical parts in PD engines is actually a strength of this design. While in a VP engine, the pump, the manifold, and 4 injectors need to be replaced (6 parts), in a PD engine, only 4 PD elements need to be changed to achieve a new performance level.

It should be clear that the peripheral components (e.g., bearings, pistons, block, turbocharger) need to be adapted for continuous operation (i.e., from the factory) to handle the increased power output.

There are tuning chips available for PD models that offer more than 400 Nm of torque, and depending on the original power output, they can boost horsepower to over 160 PS. What more could you want?

Best regards,
Uwe

Bertil wrote:

ulf wrote: It starts with the seals between the diesel fuel supply line and the return line, as well as the seals between the fuel injectors and the crankcase, and extends to the precise external dimensions of the injectors. So, in my engine, the PD elements are installed in the cylinder head. Also, the inlet and outlet lines are located in the cylinder head in my engine. Is that different with the 130 HP Polo?

Hi Bertil,

By "crankcase," I meant the area against which the diesel area must be sealed. So, air and oil, under the pressure conditions in the crankcase, which are also present in the cylinder head.
Maybe I phrased it a little poorly .

Quote:

The injectors all have exactly the same size. Changing them is also not a difficult task.

Ah, these similarities were previously questionable to me.

ulf wrote:

Maybe I phrased it a little poorly .

Okay, approved .

Quote:

Quote: The injectors all have exactly the same size. Changing them is also not a difficult task. Ah, these similarities were previously questionable to me.

Okay, for the Golf PD (MJ2002), there was only one cylinder head available. It was bare, without any parts included, with the part number 038 103 351D. This is compatible with the engines ATD, AXR, AJM, AUY, ASZ, and ARL, which cover all the significant PD power classes (74, 85, 96, and 110 kW).
It would greatly surprise me if all the PD elements don't fit perfectly there. If they don't, then VW has done something fundamentally wrong...

"However, "turbo tuning" is actually quite expensive for the PD engine, but it is possible... even with the right pump!"

Bertil wrote:

Nevertheless, "turbocharging" is actually too expensive for the PD engine, but it is possible... even with the right pump!

Hi Bertil,

If all PD (positive displacement) performance classes have the same pump cam lift (or, even more precisely, the same camshaft), then it should be possible.

However, if the cam profiles were so different that foreign injectors could not be adjusted even with an adjustment screw, there would be a "mechanical" problem...

Hi Ulf,

The PD elements must be adjusted after a change to ensure that the piston does not strike the nozzle bottom.
Your objection is therefore completely correct, but this setting option does exist.

Here are some facts.

PD Element:

038 130 073 AL for ASZ, ARL.
038 130 073 AJ for ATD.
038 130 073 AQ for AXR.

EUR 569.56 each.

Price per PD element: EUR 16.56.

Camshaft 038 109 101 R is the same for all these engines .

Okay, let's get started, time for some tuning .

m;

How complicated is it to install a new PD element?

Hi,

Well, I don't think you can really call jet tuning 'too expensive.' After all, you're not just adding something extra that's very expensive; you're also removing parts that have a significant value. I have no idea what a set of PD injectors would fetch on eBay, but in reality, when calculating the material costs, you should only consider the difference between the value of the new parts and the value of the parts you removed.
Then things might get interesting again...

Greetings.

Eike.

Hello,

Quote:

How complicated is it to set up a new PD element

?

Not much more complicated than the usual valve adjustment procedure on older engines.
Adjust and calibrate based on tactile feedback.

Replacing the PD injectors in a 100hp PD engine seems relatively pointless, as the potential power output likely exceeds the engine's design limits. Either a conversion with other ARL parts would be necessary, or a simple chip tuning would be a more appropriate solution. While it might make more sense for an AJM engine, all 130hp and 150hp PD-TDI engines, as well as the new R5 and V10 TDI engines, use the same PD injectors.
Here, you can only access parts from other car manufacturers that use larger components than those used by ARL.

Someone once posted a link to the Bosch website that showed ALL available PD (Piezo Direct) injectors. Unfortunately, I can't find that thread anymore. But maybe there's something more recent available?

By the way, there are different versions of the PD elements. You can identify them by the Bosch part number. I haven't yet been able to determine to what extent they are interchangeable, but it seems there are some things to consider.

Greetings.
Thomas.