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Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car

 
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ulf
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Post02-04-2004, 21:59    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car Quote

Hello.

While exploring my car, I also opened up the ubiquitous 109.

What I saw there immediately made me reach for my soldering iron...



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 Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car
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Relais 109 nachlöten.JPG

Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:16.
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Bertil
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Post02-04-2004, 22:44    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Troubleshooting for New Cars Quote

ulf wrote:
What I saw there immediately made me turn on my soldering iron.


.... and that's how the vulnerability is actually created. icon_biggrin.gif

These crimp connections are extremely temperature-stable, while solder joints are always the worst solution.
I am familiar with stress tests for these connections, and it's quite remarkable what they can withstand without any issues. For comparison, these connections were soldered and subjected to the same tests.
The soldered connections failed after only a few temperature cycles (-40°C to +85°C) under vibration stress, while the clamped connection remained intact.

The reason for these inspections is that during servicing, these crimp connections were re-soldered, and in various vehicles, these re-soldered connections have come loose.
Gruß Bertil

Skoda 5E5 CZDA + Mini R50 W10 + VW ID.3 + Fiat Ducato 250 + 161 DX

*** Technische Anfragen per PN werden von mir nicht beantwortet! ***


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:18.
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Post03-04-2004, 1:27    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Troubleshooting New Car Issues Quote

Hello.

While exploring my car, I also opened up the ubiquitous 109.

What I saw there immediately made my soldering iron heat up.

@ulf, but with you, nothing has a chance to remain untouched icon_biggrin.gif.


The reason for these investigations was that during the service, these crimp connections were re-soldered, and in various vehicles, these re-soldered connections have come loose.

[irony]
'Something like that definitely doesn't happen with ULF; everything is disassembled after every trip.'
[/ironie]

[irony]


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:20.
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ulf
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Post03-04-2004, 8:44    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Troubleshooting New Car Issues Quote

Bertil wrote:
... that during the service, these crimp connections were resoldered, and that in various vehicles, these resoldered connections have come loose.

Hi Bertil,

That's quite something... so, does the "solid" clamping connection fail if it's encased in solder?

Then I will shorten the connector wire slightly and bridge the gap to the contact pin with a loop made of very thin wire, which will absorb temperature and vibration stresses due to its elasticity.
Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:21.
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Uwe
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Post03-04-2004, 10:30    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car Quote

... and put a spare 109 bulb next to the spare light bulbs in the glove compartment icon_eek.gif.

Best regards,
Uwe
Kundenservice bedeutet bei Audi, die Kunden so schnell über den Tisch zu ziehen, daß sie die Reibungswärme als Nestwärme empfinden!


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:22.
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Bertil
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Post03-04-2004, 13:50    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Troubleshooting New Car Issues Quote

Hi Ulf,

ulf wrote:
...

That's quite something... so, does the "solid" clamping connection fail if it's encased in solder?

Then I will simply shorten the connector wire a bit and bridge the gap to the contact pin with a loop made of very thin wire, which will absorb temperature and vibration stresses due to its elasticity.


Okay, the solder joint isn't great, but I'd leave it as it is for now. Just keep in mind that if your car ever malfunctions, it might be due to the solder joint. It will probably take several years for the solder joint to completely fail.

These crimp connectors look incredibly fragile, but they are not. You shouldn't repeatedly play with them (opening and closing them), as that's not good for these connections.
In particular, these clamping connections are ideal for applications where connections are exposed to significant temperature and vibration stress, such as in automobiles.
Gruß Bertil

Skoda 5E5 CZDA + Mini R50 W10 + VW ID.3 + Fiat Ducato 250 + 161 DX

*** Technische Anfragen per PN werden von mir nicht beantwortet! ***


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:23.
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ulf
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Post03-04-2004, 14:50    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car Quote

Hello Bertil & all,

Let's take a slight detour into the realm of "development":

Why aren't semiconductor switches used instead of these complex relays?

The 109, with its only 3 connections, practically begs to be replaced, for example, by a transistor, just like the old Lima contact regulators, which have long since become obsolete.

A PNP Darlington switching transistor would be a great alternative to the 109: Connect the emitter to a constant positive voltage, the collector to the load (EDC), and the base to the motor computer's control output via a current-limiting resistor.

If the power transistor is properly saturated, the voltage drop across the switch is less than 0.1 volts, which results in minimal power dissipation.

Are there already FETs or other semiconductor switches available that can switch the load current without any voltage drop?

Something like that would be ideal for a fake AGR signal of the mass airflow sensor icon_wink.gif.
My engine seems to produce significantly less carbon buildup in the intake manifold compared to the AFN (the ASZ only produces a very light, dry carbon deposit), so I haven't yet made any firm plans to completely disable the EGR system. After almost 2,000 kilometers, I'm still holding off.
But you never know...
Gruß Ulf
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Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:26.
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Bertil
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Post03-04-2004, 15:05    Subject: Relay 109 (m): Replacement for New Car Quote

ulf wrote:
Why aren't semiconductor switches used instead of these complex relays, which have been around for a long time?


Good question, next please... icon_wink.gif

I can't tell you that either. Perhaps the semiconductor switches in this power class are still 1 cent too expensive... icon_rolleyes.gif
Gruß Bertil

Skoda 5E5 CZDA + Mini R50 W10 + VW ID.3 + Fiat Ducato 250 + 161 DX

*** Technische Anfragen per PN werden von mir nicht beantwortet! ***


Translated on 29-09-2026, 13:28.
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