Relais 109: Location for 1Z?

Hello everyone!

I experienced some slight cold-start issues with my 1Z engine earlier this year.
Ich habe, nach Recherche hier bei gleichen Themen zunächst die Glühkerzen auswechseln lassen. Die Streifensicherung war i. OBitte gib mir den Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest.

Now that it's getting colder again (and the topic of cold starting problems will likely come up more frequently), I'm experiencing my own cold starting difficulties again.
I would like to replace relay 109 in my car (1.4L engine, first registered in January 1995, currently with 208,000 km) before replacing the battery (which is still the original one).

Despite studying the 'Help Yourself' book, I was still unable to locate relay 109.
Can someone help me?
Perhaps they also know how much it costs, and whether it can be replaced by someone like me, who's not very handy with tools.

Sure, here's the translation:

'Thank you in advance!'

Best regards, D.

"At least in my Ibiza, it's simply located on the relay panel, right next to the fuses. There's a white '109' clearly marked on the housing."

Take a look where the fuses are located; in VW cars, they are usually right next to the relay block.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi Jan.
I recently replaced relay 109 in my own vehicle.
It is located in the fuse box, in the lower left corner.
BTW, it didn't help at all because the error was actually somewhere else.
So, you could potentially save that almost 13 euros.

What problems do you experience when starting the engine in cold weather?
Regards.
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Micha'

When the temperature is below, say, 6 degrees Celsius, the starter motor has to run for a significantly longer time before the engine starts.
There is no unusual smoke or exhaust. Also, the engine starts immediately and runs smoothly, just like it does when it's warmer, and the motor is present from the very first turn of the starter.

Perhaps it's a little bit of this (glow plugs) here, a little bit of that (Relias 109) there, and maybe a little bit of the battery, and possibly even the power cables (???).

Even though it's not that dramatic yet, it still bothers me.

Best regards, D.

This morning, the temperature was around 5 degrees Celsius again.
He has started much worse than usual.

After I got home, I tested the battery acid with a cheap tester I bought from the hardware store.
The test indicated that the battery charge is good.

I then started looking for the relay and found it.
I'll probably replace it next week, because a new battery is quite a bit more expensive.

Best regards, D.

Quote:

This morning, the temperature was around 5 degrees Celsius again. He has started much worse than usual. After I got home, I tested the battery acid with a cheap tester I bought from the hardware store. The test indicated that the battery charge is good.

If I were you, I would try using a battery acidifier on the battery BEFORE the first start in the morning. If you've been driving, there's a good chance it's currently charged. However, with a battery that's 7 years old, it could very well be the cause of your problems. Perhaps the starter motor isn't turning fast enough, or the glow plugs aren't working sufficiently...or both. Even better would be a battery test at a workshop or Bosch service center using a battery tester that provides an accurate "diagnosis" of the condition of your battery (under load!).
Good luck.
Dirk.

brezelmann01 wrote:

If I were in your shoes, I would use a battery acidizer to treat the battery BEFORE the first start in the morning. If you have been driving, there is a good chance that it is currently charged. However, with an age of 7 years, the battery could very well be a significant reason for your problems.

Hi everyone,

AFAIK, the acid density meter doesn't lie that easily: in an old battery, a significant portion of the sulfuric acid has been converted into solid lead sulfate and is therefore "lost," and can no longer make the remaining acid "normally heavy" - not even after a 5-hour drive.

If the acid density is evenly distributed and good everywhere, then it's probably not the battery causing the problem.

I might be wrong, but theoretically, wouldn't it be easier to detect the early stages of cell degradation (is that even a thing?!) if the battery hadn't been charged beforehand? Or am I mistaken?
However, as I mentioned, the best way to determine the starting performance is to measure the battery under load, for example, in a workshop. This allows you to also assess the cold-cranking current, which is quite important.

Dirk.

Okay, despite the horror stories about relay 109, I just got a new one at the Volkswagen service center in Braunschweig.

It now has a different color, and is noticeably smaller than my 'original.'
It cost me 10.61 EUR.

A new original battery (12V, 61 AH) would cost me a gross price of 96.16 EUR.

I'm going to wait for the temperatures to get colder first.

I'll stick with it.

brezelmann01 wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but theoretically, wouldn't it be easier to detect the beginning of cell degradation (is there such a thing?!) if the battery hasn't been charged beforehand, or am I mistaken?! However, as I mentioned, the best way to determine the starting performance is to measure the battery under load, for example, in a workshop. This allows you to also assess the cold-cranking current, which is quite important. Dirk

Hi Dirk,

You probably mean something like: Discharge the battery halfway and then compare the acid density?

I suspect that the temporal progression of acid density is parallel across individual cells.
This would mean that a cell with a (developing) defect could be identified in every charge state, compared to the still healthy ones.

However, as I said, this is just a guess - I will not question statements made by people with extensive knowledge about batteries.

Okay, yesterday it was cold enough, with a temperature of 3 degrees.

And - I think it's an illusion that things have improved.
It still starts much worse than when the temperature is above 8 degrees Celsius.

It looks like I'll need a new battery now.
I'm just not sure whether I should get one from the supermarket (12V 61Ah, 3-year warranty, €59.90), or maybe a better one.

I will report again.

Hi, I just received a great picture via email:



It's easy to see the broken and partially burnt solder joints. This kind of damage makes soldering very difficult. The best approach is to clear away more of the surrounding area and reflow a larger surface.

Nice picture.

I still have my old relay. I suppose I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow.

Based on the battery test report in ADAC Motorwelt, I'm now leaning towards an 'Arktis' battery from ATU.
It should cost 65.00 EUR including a 7.50 EUR deposit.
It seems like a fair offer, or should I choose a larger capacity?

I had the old one tested. The mechanic's eyes widened when he saw that I still had the original one.
Currently, it has a resting voltage of 12.4V. When started without preheating, the voltage dropped to 9.8V.
The alternator was still charging at 14.4V despite all the electrical loads (lights, rear window defroster, seat heaters, radio, and the fan running at full speed).

I will report again.

Okay, I just bought a 12V - 74Ah battery from ATU for 63.50 EUR.
Now I'm waiting again for cooler temperatures.

Okay, today it was 2 degrees. And, it probably didn't make a difference.

Right now, I'm completely at a loss.

Best regards, D.