ABE and Electronics Projects

Hello everyone,

Actually, this probably belongs in the other forum because of the "electronics" aspect, but on the other hand, I think it's more appropriately categorized as "Miscellaneous," so I'm posting it here.

Does anyone know what the regulations are regarding the General Operating Permit (ABE) for electrical projects, specifically when it comes to circuit modifications?

It is clear that, for example, installing heated seats does not change the approval certificate (ABE), nor does installing a (passive) parking assist system or similar modifications.

It is equally clear that any electrical modifications to the MSG will invalidate the operating permit.

However, there's a larger gray area in between, which also includes some interesting DIY projects.

For example, custom daylight running light systems, automatic turn signals for highways, or similar features. These are things that interfere with the electrical systems of relevant components, but essentially do nothing more than what the driver could achieve themselves using the switches.

Does anyone know if there's a definition or distinction for that?

Currently, I find three-blink turn signals to be interesting. These signals make the turn signal flash three times with a single tap (which is a standard feature in many newer cars). A possible solution would be a small circuit placed between the turn signal lever and the rest of the system (without modifying the turn signal relay) that essentially "holds" the switch in the on position for a longer duration, using a relay.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hello Jan,
Here are two threads on the topic, although they are quite extensive – each five pages long – from the 'neighboring forums.'
- http://www.passat3b.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=881&highlight=komfortblinker&sid=f942ca14bcb9076e24fca403373970ce
and
- http://www.octavia-forum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1218&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=997a0b4317fc2ecdae9c6e77cb4f79cf
Bye.
Max.

Hi,

Thank you for the link!

That's good to know. My software (which, unlike the hardware, is already complete) currently completely isolates the switch from the rest of the system, so there's no "fallback mechanism" in case of failure. But it's not a big deal to change that.

Best regards,

Jan.

hi,
Here's a little something from me:

[img][/img]

greetingshttp://pics.m-eit.de/lupo/komfortblinker.JPG{MARKER}

Hi,

How do you connect it?

a) Connect it in parallel with the existing switch.

b) Cut the cables, and then remove everything in between.

I've been in favor of option b) so far, and that's how my program is designed, but based on the article linked above from the Octavia forum, option a) seems technically better.

The program and circuit are quite simple in both cases, but I prefer option b) because the original switch only needs to switch a few milliamps for the AVR, rather than several amps for the turn signals (mine was already broken once).

Best regards,

Jan.

hi,
Currently, I have option A).
Since I assembled and programmed it in a rush, it's not perfect yet.
However, I'm currently still having the problem of it flashing.
Okay, so for example, if it gets stuck and flashes 7 times, then it will flash 2 more times until the next 3 are full. The chance of it flashing too many times is 1 in 3, and it only really bothers you sometimes.

That's because, unlike the kit in the Passat forum, I'm not using a timer, but rather counting the flashes.
It's generally better than the one from the Passat forum.
You can interrupt the automatic turn signal activation, for example, by briefly tapping the other side's turn signal stalk. However, this doesn't seem to work on the Passat forum (as far as I've read).
Currently, I have the three wires for the turn signals, as well as the positive and negative wires.
So, in total, 5 lines.
I'll work on it sometime and try to just tap into the three wires leading to the turn signal. It should be possible because you can use the currently inactive side, which acts as a ground, and you can hold the voltage with a capacitor during the blinking process.
That would be a simple solution to install, and one that could also be sold.
greetings

Hi,

According to my understanding, based on information from the Passat forum, the turn signal blinking is also interrupted if you tap the other side. The designer mentioned this somewhere as well - so tap on the left side, and then swipe to the right - then the left side will immediately stop (only the control LEDs will briefly light up simultaneously, the lamps are too slow to react).

Besides that, I see another problem with this.

According to my findings from the wiring diagram for the Polo 6KV switch, the cables from the switch are directly connected to the lamps, while the third cable goes to the turn signal flasher.

When building a circuit of type "a)", you will observe a flashing light to the left (the relay for the left turn is activated), while simultaneously, the system attempts to turn right. Both are active for a very short time, and then the left relay is deactivated.

"Both active" is therefore the indicator for "has been switched."

Since the wires are directly connected, it's impossible to distinguish this from a brief activation of the hazard lights... and that's where I see bigger problems.

My current thinking still leans towards option b), but with a 3-pole changeover relay acting as a disconnect relay. This would allow us to switch to a default mode in case of errors and bypass the circuit.

I also posted this in the Minecraft forum, and there were some nice ideas there as well.



Cable-wise (5 wires instead of http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/read-1-79582.html, and due to the elimination of the separating relay), I would prefer it, but I still don't see a really good way to cleanly implement the left-tap, then right, and the hazard light sequence.

By the way, counting impulses in part b is also easily done, and I've already thought about that, but then you would have two more "hot" inputs on the microcontroller.

Your blinking sequence should be easily resolved by generally counting impulses (just as I generally count time impulses). Once 3 is exceeded, you switch to a different mode where the blinking is simply disabled – in approach a), this means simply turning off the relay until the process starts again. However, this would require time to determine whether two impulses belong to the same "blink" or to two consecutive ones. This is also a reason why I use time as a measure, because as long as all the lights are working correctly, such a blinking device is relatively stable, and the exact milliseconds don't matter. The main thing is to catch the third pause in the blinking sequence.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi,

It's that time again to change the signature.

After a long period of work, the project is now complete and can be viewed.

http://www.uyna.de/auto/ab-blink/

In addition, a shorter version will also be published as a technical article – as soon as Rainer has approved it.

Best regards,

Jan.

Oops.
grown quite a bit and has quite a few relays on it .

Have I forgotten something, considering that I have significantly fewer components?

greetings

Hi,

Well... since I couldn't find a suitable 3xUM relay, I used two relays for the isolation function (because of the safety feature that reverts to the standard configuration in case of problems) and one more for the central locking function.

The rest involves relay control (resistor + transistor + protective diode).

For the basic function, I could have managed with two relays, or alternatively, electronic switches. Something about that post from the Octavia forum sparked a desire in me to build something more reliable after the "separation" method.

When I turn the ignition on now, it behaves like a real control unit... the relays click briefly while the display illuminates, and then it signals that everything is okay by blinking. If I had wanted to, I could have also implemented blink error codes there .

Best regards,

Jan.

hi,
I playfully rerouted my version, and because I'm a minimalist, it has become very small and uses SMD components.

The flickering will now also be prevented.
The entire circuit board is 27mm by 34mm in size.
Platinum would cost 5 euros per piece, with a minimum order quantity of 10 pieces.

As before, 5 cables need to be connected: turn signal positive, turn signal left, turn signal right, ground, and ignition positive.

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

greetingshttp://pics.m-eit.de/lupo/komfortblinkerschaltplanV1.JPG{MARKER}http://pics.m-eit.de/lupo/komfortblinkerboardV1.JPG{MARKER}

Hi,

Not bad! Elegant and incredibly small - recognition!

I especially like the fact that there are no mechanical components.

On the negative side, this doesn't relieve the load on the original switches, meaning you still have the approximately 3.5 amps that are switched by them (at least every time you turn them on, and every time you "normally" turn them off).

And: If I understand the circuit correctly, the AVR won't detect if any of the FETs get stuck in the "on" state, right? (although that's rather unlikely).

Have you already installed it and are you using it in practice?

I don't want to be without my circuit anymore after these 7 days.

Best regards,

Jan.

hi,

This is the same circuit that I've been using in my car for a few months now.
I just need to modify the program again so that it doesn't flicker (under various circumstances).

[img][/img]



Basically, there isn't a safety circuit there that detects errors in the circuit.
The worst thing that can happen is that a FET switches on, then it blinks constantly, and when it blinks in the other direction, the fuse blows. (Well, if a workshop were to try to find the fault and didn't know anything about the circuit, it could happen that they get confused and can't find the problem ).

Simply toggling it back and forth doesn't cause any errors.

It should be designed with detachable connectors, so that it can be easily disconnected or unplugged if something happens, perhaps during a vacation. http://pics.m-eit.de/lupo/komfortblinker.JPG{MARKER}

Since I've never had a faulty turn signal switch before, I don't think it's so bad that it's still under normal load.

greetings

Hi,

Quote:

Since I've never had a faulty turn signal switch before, I don't think it's so bad that it's still under normal load.

That was actually one of my main motivations, because my first switch only lasted for 18 months. I think that the heavy city traffic is partly to blame, but what can you do in a big city?

With a minor software adaptation, you could actually detect the problematic error (FET in pass-through state). Unlike my circuit, you can't distinguish this case from "beta switch activated," but you can check it during boot. Specifically, if, during boot, the potential on the supply line is the same as the potential on one of the indicator lines, then display an error using an LED (if an output is still available). While this also covers starting with the turn signal activated, how often does that actually happen?

By the way, I also check the inputs during the boot process.

Best regards,

Jan.

hi,
Unfortunately, there are no more free I/O pins available; otherwise, I would have made the number of blinks variable.
You would have to replace the chip.

and this is the result.
If you don't have anything to do on Friday evening.
and always do what the manufacturers would prefer.
namely, always using the newest, most expensive, and smallest components .
I replaced the FETs with SO8 SMD components (which are even lower resistance).

Well, you can also exaggerate it (line width 0.2mm ).

[img][/img]

greetings


PS: Everything was manually routed, no autorouter was used. 8Ohttp://pics.m-eit.de/lupo/komfortblinkerboardV2.JPG{MARKER}

Hi,

*grin*

So, I don't want to have to solder that.

What do you think about turning this into a technical article, similar to the one I wrote? Then we have both versions complete - the one with the separation, and the one without.

Best regards,

Jan.