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Performance variations due to ZKD selection?

 
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ulf
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Post02-05-2004, 18:47    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Quote

Hello,

According to my knowledge, the compression ratio of an engine primarily determines its efficiency.

While browsing the Bücheli repair manual for the Golf 3, I found that the 3 different ZKD (cylinder head gasket) options for the VP 37 engine (to be used depending on the piston overhang) apparently differ in increments of 0.1 mm.

With a compression ratio of 19:1 and a bore of 95.5 mm, the (assumed cylindrical) combustion chamber has a calculated height of approximately 5.31 mm.

If the bore height is reduced by the specified ZKD grid of 0.1 mm, the target compression changes from 19.0 to approximately 18.69 (19.36), which is a change of approximately 1.7%.

This effect could, for example, be relevant if the piston overhanging measured in engine production is exactly at the "selection limit" of the ZKD (1, 2 or 3 grooves...).
One mechanic might then use the thinner head gasket and give the engine a compression ratio of 1:19.16, while the other prefers to use the thicker gasket to build an engine with a compression ratio of 18.83, considering it to be more material-efficient.

If the compression ratio is completely off (using the thinnest instead of the thickest, and vice versa), compression ratios of approximately 19.7 or 18.4 instead of the target value of 19.0 are conceivable.

IMO, engines with such different compression ratios, if otherwise identical (and also undergo the same break-in procedures), should have different performance and fuel consumption – the only question is how large the differences would be.

The answer seems to be in the efficiency, but when searching in the forum, I haven't found a direct relationship (formula) between (geometric) compression and efficiency.

-> Machine builders and graduates to the forefront:
Who can calculate / reliably estimate the performance and consumption-related effects of the aforementioned? Deviations from an ideal value of 19.0 in terms of compaction?
Perhaps this explains, at least in part, the performance fluctuations of the TDIs. icon_eek.gif icon_question.gif
Gruß Ulf
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Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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mcgyver2k
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Post02-05-2004, 22:35    Subject: Re: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Quote

ulf wrote:
-> Machine builders & Graduates to the forefront:
Who can calculate / reliably estimate the performance and consumption-related effects of the aforementioned? Deviations from an ideal value of 19.0 in terms of compaction?


Then I feel like I'm being addressed. I was planning to take a closer look at a VKM script, specifically regarding the VP's mussel diagram.
01er Skoda Fabia Combi ATD


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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faz
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Post03-05-2004, 0:35    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Translating...

[Translating...]

Die Beziehung zwischen Verdichtungsverhältnis und Wirkungsgrad kann man nur in einem idealisierten theoretischen Vergleichsprozess beschreiben.

Der TDi-Motor hat näherungsweise den Gleichraumprozess.
Und in dem gilt:

Wirkungsgrad = 1 - (Verdichtungsverhältnis "hoch" (1-Kappa))

Is alles sehr theoretisch. Wie es mit der Wirklichkeit aussieht, denke ich, kann man nur am Prüfstand oder sonstwas sehn.
MfG faz


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Post03-05-2004, 6:11    Subject: Re: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Quote


If the compression ratio is completely off (using the thinnest instead of the thickest, and vice versa), compression ratios of approximately 19.7 or 18.4 instead of the target value of 19.0 are conceivable.

IMO, engines with such different compression ratios, if otherwise identical (and also undergo the same break-in procedures), should have different performance and fuel consumption – the only question is how large the differences would be.


-> Machine builders and graduates to the forefront:
Who can calculate / reliably estimate the performance and consumption-related effects of the aforementioned? Deviations from an ideal value of 19.0 in terms of compaction?


So, ich bin weder Maschinenbauingenieur noch habe ich ein Studium, aber dafür habe ich jahrelange Erfahrung als Systemadministrator mit einem guten Bauchgefühl.
if I look at the compression values of the engines I've run...
...I think it's more likely that these differences are icon_wink.gif

'It will probably never be possible to accurately measure it, because while you can, for example, run the engines in the same way, etc.'
but you can never exactly replicate them (at least not with reasonable effort)

See you, Gremlin


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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garth.brooks
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Post03-05-2004, 14:54    Subject: Compression & Efficiency Quote

Hi Ulf,

As far as I remember, the practically achievable efficiency does not increase significantly above 16:1. This should be more noticeable when starting up in a cold state. I would like to reduce the compression in my AFN, but making the ZK smaller while it's still functioning properly is also excessive.


Translated on 03-07-2026, 15:19.
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ulf
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Post03-05-2004, 18:18    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Translating...

[Translating...]

faz wrote:
Wirkungsgrad = 1 - (Verdichtungsverhältnis "hoch" (1-Kappa))

Hi,

mir ging es letztlich um eine Art Faustformel.
Also ob sich der Wirkungsgrad z.B. proportional verhält
-> zur Verdichtung
-> oder zum Quadrat der Verdichtung
-> oder zu ihrer Wurzel . . .

Aber so einfach scheint mir das leider nicht zu sein . . .
Was ist denn dieses Kappa icon_eek.gif icon_question.gif
Gruß Ulf
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Albrecht
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Post03-05-2004, 19:46    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Translating...

[Translating...]

Hallo Ulf,

das von faz geschriebene ist grundsätzlich richtig.

kappa ist die cp/cv=1,4 (spez. Wärmekonstanten eines idealen Gases)

weitere Voraussetzungen für den Gleichraumprozess:

- keine Wärme- und Gasverluste, kein Restgas
- ideales Gas (s.o.)
- unendlich schnelle Wärmezu- und abfuhr
- keine Strömungsverluste

theoretisch würde also der thermische Wirkungsgrad bei einer Verdichtungserhöhung von 18 auf 19 von 0,685 auf 0,692 steigen.

Der Gesamtwirkungsgrad setzt sich aber noch aus vielen anderen Dingen zusammen, welche sich teilweise gegenseitig beeinflussen. In der Praxis reduziert man also beim Dieselmotor lieber die Verdichtung, weil dadurch Vorteile entstehen die dem Gesamtwirkungsgrad und der Haltbarkeit eher zugute kommen.
Die hohe Verdichtung bei alten Vorkammermotoren ist wirklich nur für den Kaltstart von nöten.

mfG
Albrecht
01/01-08/08 Passat Variant 35i, 08/96, AFN, 94-283Tkm (5.Gg. defekt)
08/08-07/15 A6 (C5) Av. quattro 6-Gg., EZ 10/02, AKE 189-265Tkm (Kolbenriss)
07/15-09/17 A6 (C6) Av. qu. 6-Gg. 3.0 TDI, CDYC, EZ 05/11 180-210Tkm (verkauft)
08/17-11/17 A6 (C7) Av. qu 3.0 TDI comp.(leasing)
seit 2018 Skoda Roomster 1.6 TDI 5-Gg.
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Albrecht
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Post03-05-2004, 22:05    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Translating...

[Translating...]

Hier nochmal ein Diagramm dazu: man sieht das eine Verdichtungserhöhung nur beim oOttomotor was bringt.



thermischer_wirkungsgrad.jpg
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 Performance variations due to ZKD selection?
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thermischer_wirkungsgrad.jpg

01/01-08/08 Passat Variant 35i, 08/96, AFN, 94-283Tkm (5.Gg. defekt)
08/08-07/15 A6 (C5) Av. quattro 6-Gg., EZ 10/02, AKE 189-265Tkm (Kolbenriss)
07/15-09/17 A6 (C6) Av. qu. 6-Gg. 3.0 TDI, CDYC, EZ 05/11 180-210Tkm (verkauft)
08/17-11/17 A6 (C7) Av. qu 3.0 TDI comp.(leasing)
seit 2018 Skoda Roomster 1.6 TDI 5-Gg.
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ulf
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Post04-05-2004, 16:24    Subject: Performance variations due to ZKD selection? Translating...

[Translating...]

Albrecht wrote:
Hier nochmal ein Diagramm dazu: man sieht das eine Verdichtungserhöhung nur beim oOttomotor was bringt.

Hi Albrecht,

ein sehr schönes Diagramm genau zu meiner Frage icon_biggrin.gif

Damit ist also klar, daß leichte fertigungsgedingte Streuungen der Verdichtung im Bereich um 19 keine merklichen Leistungsunterschiede bewirken dürften.

Danke!
Gruß Ulf
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