Diagnostic test environment

Hi everyone,

Has anyone of you (as someone mentioned something similar in Jörg's long thread about diagnostic circuits) ever experimented with a kind of small test setup for diagnostic systems, and especially for understanding the functionality of various control units?

Ideally, you should be able to take any control unit with a K-line from scrap (or a known auction house), connect it to ground and 12 volts, and then connect ground, 12V, and the K-line to one of the well-known diagnostic interfaces. Of course, do this not in the car, but on your desk.

This is likely to produce a lot of errors because the control unit won't have the actual car connected to it, but this should be solvable with a collection of resistors, capacitors, etc. (I'm thinking of something simpler than an MSG, maybe more like an airbag controller or a comfort control module).

Certainly, such communication should be possible because the K-line is configured as a bus.

What do you think?

I can imagine several applications for something like that...

Best regards,

Jan.

Exactly for this reason, I have been trying for weeks to get a cheap VAG control unit that is capable of diagnostics, but so far no luck .
Okay, so if anyone has anything to sell (ABS module, MSG, comfort control module, airbag control module), bring it on!

Hi,

Have you ever considered one of the world's largest online auction platforms? ABS control units for cars like the VW Golf III and similar models often go for just 1 euro there.
I also got one of those.

Regards,

Andy.

Hi,

When I checked earlier, there was a 2002 gasoline engine control unit (MSG) listed for €1... It should definitely be testable.

Only the TDI parts are very expensive.

"@Andy: Besides just testing the communication, can this ABS module be used for anything else? For example, could you input a frequency into the wheel speed sensor inputs and then read speed values using VAGCOM?"

Best regards,

Jan.

http://www.ross-tech.net/fun/ECUs-sm.jpg

-Uwe-

@Jan6K

Due to a chronic lack of time, I haven't yet progressed beyond the stage of just buying the control unit.
I'd really like to attach it sometime, but right now it's about 450 km away in my garage.

Regards,
Andy.

The regulations shouldn't be too new either (KWP1281 is the target). Do the newer regulations even support that? Oh, and one more thing... not many providers ship to Switzerland .

Nur zu neu dürfen die Stg auch nicht sein (KWP1281 ist ja das Ziel) Wird das von den neue Stg überhaupt noch unterstützt?

Okay, let's take the engine control unit (ECU) as an example. Everything that is called EDC15 uses KWp1281. EDC16 (which uses KWp2000 and CAN, where KWp2000 is a requirement for CAN) started appearing around 2003/2004. And these parts probably shouldn't be found yet in the large online auction houses. However, VW radios Gamma and Beta, which are from around 1999, might work well for diagnostics. They should all have diagnostic capabilities via KWp1281. This also has a positive side effect: you can listen to music while tinkering.

Hi,

You're right, K-Line should already have the device.

The newer ones only use CAN (but since when exactly, and are they all like that?), and they implement the K-line communication via a CAN gateway.

Does anyone know what kind of CPU (or, more precisely, microcontroller) is used in something like an ABS controller or an engine control unit (ECU), such as an EDC 15?

Best regards,

Jan.

'Hmm, the CAN gateway is only there to bridge signals from the slow CAN bus to the fast CAN bus. The control units should still have a K-line, just like in the past. I found this information through Google. However, I can't understand why the CAN gateway would report a CAN -> K connection.'

Best regards, WarLord.

Hi,

According to my information, the CAN gateway also serves to enable diagnostics of devices that can only be accessed via CAN.

Best regards,

Jan.

The CAN gateway logically connects the powertrain (500 kbaud), comfort (100 kbaud), and infotainment (100 kbaud, if available) buses.

Furthermore, for diagnostic purposes, it connects the CAN bus to the diagnostic connector and creates a 'virtual' K-line for certain control units, such as for the climate control system or navigation system (highly dependent on the vehicle!).

CU Gremlin.

@Jan6K

I believe the Infineon C16x family is very popular among car manufacturers. These processors support CAN 2.0B and also meet all requirements for standard protocols. Furthermore, the newer XC16x versions already support J1850.

greeting cluster

NARF...

Unfortunately, I don't have that information here. I can tell you more about the processors used and those planned for the future on Tuesday.

The only thing that's certain is that the C1xx series is being discontinued. It's happening way too slowly... The trend is moving towards 32-64 bit architectures and a *lot* more flash memory.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Cu Gremlin'

Hi,

Quote:

Unfortunately, I don't have that information here. I can tell you more about the processors used and those planned for the future on Tuesday.

That would be nice!

Quote:

The only thing that's certain is that the C1xx series is being discontinued. It's happening way too slowly... The trend is moving towards 32-64 bit architectures and a *lot* more flash memory.

It's getting cheaper and cheaper... but other problems are emerging more sharply as a result... I'll just say "worst-case execution time analysis."

Best regards,

Jan.

Okay...

EDC-15: C167 (16-bit), 4-8 MIPS (typical 16 MHz), 0.5-1 MB Flash memory.
EDC-16: MPC 555 ('Golden Oak'), 32-bit, 30-40 MIPS (typical 40 MHz), 1-2 MB Flash memory.
EDC-16+: MPC 562 / 564 ('Silver/Green Oak', 32-bit), 40-70 MIPS (typical 56 MHz), 2-4 MB Flash.
EDC-17: likely TC1796/TC1766 (32-bit), 100-500 MIPS (up to 400 MHz), 1-32MB Flash.


CU Gremlin.