Ways to get wrongfully terminated at PDs?

Hello,

Given the (still?) somewhat underwhelming performance of my Polo, I'm generally interested in how much a current 1.9 PD engine can be incorrectly assembled or adjusted at the factory.

If the pump is incorrectly adjusted (like with a VP system), that's no longer possible.

With a V-engine, for example, the timing (synchronization between the crankshaft and camshaft) can be easily misadjusted by the taper between the camshaft and the drive gear, as long as the pistons and valves don't collide.
The inspection in such cases is performed by comparing the timing mark on the crankshaft with the position of the "alignment grooves" on the camshaft, which are located on the transmission side.

Does anyone know what the corresponding inspection process looks like at PD (ASZ)?
Does it require disassembling the tandem pump, or are there other possible solutions?


What hasn't been discussed here yet, but which occurred to me, is a misaligned installation of the crankshaft sprocket with the TDC (Top Dead Center) marking and/or the speed and TDC sensor wheel on the crankshaft.
Then, in the usual tests, everything would appear to be OK, while the engine is still incorrectly adjusted internally (synchronization between the crankshaft pin and the engine control unit).

Is it even possible, or are the pinion and driven gears absolutely locked together in a way that prevents any slippage on the crankshaft?

I'm not panicking about my "weak" engine, but the topic seems fundamentally interesting to me, especially in light of potential workshop errors when working on our engines.

Okay, so it seems the issue with the timing sprocket and the OT marking is resolved, since you mentioned that the Polo starts on the first compression, which means the system knows which cylinder is firing. Also, I think this particular sensor is positioned on the crankshaft in a way that prevents it from being adjusted, because the OT points always correspond to the same crankshaft position. Therefore, an adjustment option wouldn't really be useful, would it? Or does one really have to expect everything with VW?
I'm also very curious to see other responses (since I'm also an ASZ user).

ulf wrote:

Does anyone here know what the corresponding check looks like at PD (ASZ)?

http://www.hazet.de/deutsch/produktinfo/pdf/2588_3.pdf

Bertil wrote:

Hi Bertil,

While the tool kit, in my opinion, allows for locking all the important (both) timing belt pulleys, how is the relative alignment between the crankshaft and the crankshaft pulley adjusted?

The VP engine features a cone-pressed connection, unlike gasoline engines which typically use fixing protrusions and grooves.
That means the NW could be completely wrong in the VP-TDI, even if the NW gear is perfectly aligned.

Is it solved differently in the case of a plug-in hybrid, something similar to how it's done in a gasoline engine? So that the NW (non-working element) is rigidly connected to its gear again?
If so, why was the stepless fine-tuning capability of VP motors abandoned when transitioning to PD? :http://www.hazet.de/deutsch/produktinfo/pdf/2588_3.pdf{MARKER}

The camshaft gear is in two pieces. The rear part includes the guides for the camshaft sensor, which connects to the camshaft, and the front part features three screws for fine adjustment and a gear for the timing chain.
You don't need to search extensively for the camshaft position; the engine starts immediately. (If you unplug the camshaft position sensor, you'll have to crank the engine for a longer time before it starts).
It seems more likely to me that the issue is with the crankshaft sprocket, as it is, to my knowledge, shrink-fitted onto the crankshaft.

ulf wrote:

Bertil wrote: Hi Bertil, While the tool kit, in my opinion, allows for locking all the important (both) timing belt pulleys, how is the relative alignment between the crankshaft and the crankshaft pulley adjusted?

Hi Ulf,

In PD systems, misadjustment is not as easy as in VP systems (as far as I remember).
mersente has already written the rest. I think the problem is more likely with the NW position sensor.
By the way, some of our company vehicles sometimes experience a significant increase in performance after 10,000 to 15,000 kilometers. And it happened overnight.http://www.hazet.de/deutsch/produktinfo/pdf/2588_3.pdf{MARKER}

I have also been told on several occasions that the engine power increases significantly after 10,000 km.

While an 'initialization program' would be technically feasible, I haven't seen any references to it in the EDC descriptions anywhere.

@ulf

Occasionally, check your full load injection volumes.

CU Gremlin.

hello,
Of course, a misadjustment is possible in a PD motor.
While the PD elements are 'firmly' attached to the camshaft,
but the position of the camshaft (and therefore also the PD elements) may be incorrect in relation to the crankshaft.
The locking pin is used to secure the inner part of the camshaft gear.
The crankshaft locking tool is used to secure the crankshaft.
The long holes in the outer camshaft gear are so long.
that the upper right molar can be positioned a whole tooth to the left or right.

If the settings are not correct.
Then the injection timing is incorrect.
because the crankshaft is not at the position measured by the engine control unit.
The engine control unit (ECU) detects the position using the camshaft sensor and, possibly, the crankshaft sensor.
If there are any inconsistencies, the engine control unit cannot deliver full power.
To adjust it, you need the special tool (Huzet) crankshaft locking tool and a dowel pin.


But I don't think there's anything wrong with it; I just think it needs to be properly broken in first.

greetings


/viewtopic.php?t=5121

Gremlin wrote:

@ulf log your full load injection volumes from time to time...

Hi Ralf,

I've already created a log.
And it provides practically the same values as one from BlackMagic that he once emailed me about, when he was having problems with...
Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.
The thing is, his car already had quite a few kilometers on the odometer.

mersente wrote:

The camshaft gear is in two pieces. The rear part includes the guides for the camshaft sensor, which connects to the camshaft, and the front part features three screws for fine adjustment and a gear for the timing chain. Bitte gib den Text an, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. The issue with the timing rotor for the crankshaft seems more likely to me, as it is, to my knowledge, shrink-fitted onto the crankshaft.

Okay, so you adjust the north-west corner to the south-east corner using these three screws?
What is the testing procedure for that? Probably KW in OT, but how is the NW position then checked?

For possible use. I will soon try to determine the TDC (Top Dead Center) marks by feeling for them through the spark plug holes, while rotating the engine around the TDC marks.
If, for example, according to the markings, the piston is "submerged" to different depths before and after Top Dead Center (TDC), then something is definitely wrong with the markings.
The crankshaft sprocket, located inside the crankcase, is the more important component. And in order to check that, I have to unscrew the G28(?), which is, in turn, attached with one of those &$*#&-multi-tooth screws - and the tools for that probably cost a small fortune .

If the donor wheel is indeed twisted, it might be possible to compensate for this by using a corresponding counter-rotating adjustment of the feed start. As far as I know, this type of adaptation is no longer possible with PD motors, unlike with VP motors.
Brave New World of Disempowered Hobbyists

..., but how is the northwest position then checked?

....

with the marking tool,
It engages with the inner wheel and a hole in the head.
Then there's probably still about 1/10mm of clearance, which is practically nothing.
greetings

PowerSound3L wrote:

ulf wrote: ....., but how is the northwest position then checked? .... with the marking tool, It engages with the inner wheel and a hole in the head. Then there's probably still about 1/10mm of clearance, which is practically nothing. greetings

Aaahh
so, not anymore at the transmission-side end of the NW, like with the VP .
So, you only need to remove the upper timing belt cover .

Okay, sure.
'Just' the timing belt cover.
However, you also need to make sure the lower pulley on the crankshaft is properly aligned, otherwise you won't be able to install the crankshaft stopper.
For the timing belt replacement, the left engine mount also needs to be removed (in most PD engines), which means the engine needs to be lifted.
greetings

PowerSound3L wrote:

exactly, "Just" the timing belt cover. however, also the lower pulley on the crankshaft, otherwise you won't be able to fit the crankshaft stopper.

Hi,

I don't want to replace the timing belt check, but just check the timing.
And that's enough; just rotate the KW (connecting rod) to the OT (top dead center) position and check if something of the correct caliber fits through the NW (narrowest) edge into the ZK (combustion chamber).
So, is a KW-Stop necessary for that - or not??

hello,
Basically, yes.
The question is, how exactly that needs to be done, and I can't really say.

Please provide the German text you would like me to translate.

- in this process, the pin on the crankshaft must engage with the sealing flange, interrupting the rotational movement.
- If the crankshaft was rotated past Top Dead Center (TDC) and the crankshaft stopper could not engage with the sealing flange, rotate the crankshaft back 1/4 of a revolution and then rotate it again in the direction of engine rotation to return it to TDC. Corrections made against the direction of engine rotation to set the crankshaft stopper are not permitted.

Here's a link where someone describes how, after changing the timing chain without special tools, they're experiencing a loss of power and increased fuel consumption. Perhaps they'll report back later about whether the issue has been resolved and what the deviation was.

/viewtopic.php?t=5130

greetings

PowerSound3L wrote:

hello, Please provide the German text you would like me to translate. - in this process, the pin on the crankshaft must engage with the sealing flange, interrupting the rotational movement. - If the crankshaft was rotated past TDC (Top Dead Center) and the crankshaft stop could not engage with the sealing flange, rotate the crankshaft 1/4 turn back and then rotate it again in the direction of engine rotation to bring it back to TDC. Corrections against the direction of engine rotation to set the crankshaft stop are not permitted.

Hi,

I suspect that when rotating the timing belt backwards, the "back" side of the timing belt pulley is pulled so tightly past the tensioner that the tensioner deflects slightly, causing the timing belt to rotate in the opposite direction relative to the crankshaft. It should also be noticeable on a worn or damaged timing belt on the "forward tension side."
Therefore, always rotate the motor forward for the adjustment check, so that the timing chain remains in tension as it would be during operation.

Quote:

Here's a link where, after a ZR belt replacement without specialized tools, the power is lacking and the fuel consumption is increasing. Perhaps he will report later, after the correct adjustment, whether it has been resolved and what the deviation was.

Yes, hopefully I'll hear back from them soon.
I would like to slightly question the theory of ZR length differences, because if it's "that precise," the engine power should also noticeably change due to the "natural" lengthening of the ZR during its operating life.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with it; I just think it needs to be properly broken in first.

greetings


/viewtopic.php?t=5121

Let the ASZ engine break in for a while. My Golf 4, with the ASZ engine installed and only 1500 km on the clock, only reached a top speed of 205 km/h (manufacturer's specification: 205 km/h). What you shouldn't forget is that even an ASZ engine (especially one with a longer gear ratio like in the Polo) needs much more time to reach its top speed. A Golf 3 with a turbocharger is simply in a completely different league. 'I also noticed a significant difference (before, I had a Golf 3 AFN without a tuning box).'

Over the first 10,000 kilometers, my top speed increased by about 5-7 km/h. Okay, Ulf: BE PATIENT!