Survey: Who is affected by biodiesel damage?

It's difficult to take legal action against VW as a single affected party. I have already informed the ADAC (German Automobile Club), and they filed a lawsuit against VW two years ago regarding this issue, but they were unsuccessful because VW claims that no damage occurs if you refuel according to the DIN 51606 standard. The ADAC was unable to disprove this claim. However, you all know that it has nothing to do with the standard.
Here's what you should know if you still enjoy taking risks and want to spend a lot of money on your biodiesel: The standard has changed. It is now called: DIN EN 14214.
You should get a certificate of compliance from your workshop; otherwise, you won't be eligible for any goodwill gestures.

I have absolutely nothing against alternative energy sources, but I don't agree that the customer should be the one who ends up footing the bill. VW has made a fortune using 'approval' as bait, and they've probably also pocketed subsidies for something that the vehicle isn't actually suitable for. This just can't be right!

Before I answer your question, let me reiterate it first.
'Who has experienced damage from biodiesel, and who hasn't even tried it? To be honest, I'm not interested in opinions in this thread, only facts. A simple thumbs-up or down would suffice.'
Thanks to everyone who reads or posts on this thread!

Edit: You should try to remain objective...
For you, it might be 'just' the poetry, or 'just' the plumbing, or 'just' the fuel filter.
For laypeople like myself, who don't know much about these new engines, it means a lot of money spent at the workshop.

Hi there,

First car, a G3 TDI with 66 kW, 120,000 km mileage, no issues besides a clogged fuel filter.
Second G4 car with ALH engine: After 23 months/98,000 km, the fuel pump needed to be replaced under warranty because it was leaking. The process went smoothly without any problems.

Greetings.

Eike.

Since kilometer reading 20,000, I have regularly used RME (biodiesel). The current mileage is 97,000 km.

At approximately 85,000 kilometers, the third fuel filter was prematurely installed (the second filter was clogged). The second filter was routinely replaced at 60,000 kilometers.

Starting from kilometer 93,000, the fuel injection start timing adjuster piston seized within the ESP system. The cause is currently purely speculative and may be related to RME (biodiesel).

Folgen: Regelabweichung Spritzbeginn, Notlauf. Aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen wurde auf eine Tauschpumpe (800€, Boschdienst) oder Reparatur (>400€, Boschdienst) verzichtet, stattdessen der SBV-Kolben mit einem Distanzstück hinter der SBV-Rückstellfeder auf eine erträgliche Frühverstellung fixiert. Für Autobahnfahrten wurde ein 10ct-Tuning zur Kompensation des Notlaufs installiert, das jedoch für tägliche Stadtfahrten abgeschaltet bleibt. Kosten: Ca. 2€ für Imbusschrauben aus dem Baumarkt als Ersatz für die beschädigten Torx. Werkzeug. 0ct für das 10ct-Tuning. Freizeit.

Long-term plans: During the next routine timing belt replacement (at 120,000 km), we may consider replacing the water pump or attempting to repair the one that is removed.

Best regards,

Skoda Octavia, first registration date 2000, 1.9 TDI engine with 90 horsepower, engine code: AGR.

Never refueled with RME, and never will.

Regards,
Best regards,
Greetings,
Cheers,
Warmly,
Sincerely,
(or simply)
Best,

Hello everyone,

I would like to share my long-standing experience with biodiesel at this opportunity.
Ich fahre einen Golf III TDI, AHU - 90 PS, Automatik, EZ.: April 1997. Im Januar 1999 mit Laufleistung von 64.000 Km gekauft. Damals hat sich meine Suche aus Umweltüberzeugung und Sparmöglichkeit auf einen TDI mit Biodieselfreigabe beschränkt, ich wohnte ja damals in der Nähe von Leer (Ostfriesland), wo Biodiesel hergestellt und sehr günstig verkauft wurde. Es iIt seems there was a hype around biodiesel, where only the positive aspects were known.

Nun tankte ich bereits ab dem ersten Frühling bis zum Winter den grünen Saft. Das Angebot der Tankstellen mit Biodiesel war damals noch eher bescheidend, so bin ich mal Gemisch, mal 100% RME gefahren. Auch verschiedene VW-Werkstätte haben mir nur das beste zugesichert, nur halt im Winter sollte ich lieber Normaldiesel tanken, da es wohl Probleme beim Starten geben könnte. Back then, I could very clearly perceive the differences in quality of the biodiesel from one gas station to another, both in terms of engine performance and the smell of the exhaust fumes.

My experience report:

Gleich nach paar Tausend Kilometer mit RME war der Kraftstofffilter zu, weil Biodiesel alle Ablagerungen in den Leitungen aufgelöst und durchgespült hatte. Also neuer Filter rein und gut ist es. Bis zum Winter bin ich problemlos mit RME gefahren, ab und zu nur minimalen Mehrverbrauch beobachtet. Als dann die ersten kalte Temperaturen im Anmarsch waren, konnte ich erst nach 3-maligem Vorglühen einigermaßen problemlos den Motor starten. Dem Motor und den Nachbarn (wegen blauem Rauch) zuliebe, tankte ich im Winter nur Normaldiesel. So bin ich 3 Jahre problemlos gefahren und nur einmal den Kraftstofffilter getauscht, im Sommer Biodiesel und im Winter Normaldiesel. During that time, I also did a lot of advertising for bio-juice...

In the summer of 2003 (mileage: 105,000 km), I drove my Golf to Paris. I filled it up with RME and started off. Just before France, in Belgium, I refueled with diesel. There was no RME available in France or Belgium. After a short time in Paris, we headed back home. On the way back, I filled up again in Belgium due to price differences. Arriving home without any problems, I wanted to empty the normal diesel tank before refueling with biofuel again.

And now it was time... A couple of weeks after the trip to Paris, suddenly there was a smell of unburned diesel. I opened the hood, and lo and behold... The entire fuel injection pump was soaking wet, oh dear!!!
Since around 2002, I have been closely monitoring various forums that reported on anything related to the topic: 'Damage caused by biodiesel...' . Therefore, I was already aware of this problem due to faulty ESP systems. At this point, I must admit that I had suppressed the thought that something like this could happen to me. After all, everything had been going well for me up until then, even though there were already countless cases where people were driven into ruin because of biodiesel...
Aus diesen Berichten war mir bekannt wieso meine ESP undicht geworden ist, allerdings war mir auch bekannt, dass RME eine starke aufquellende Wirkung auf die Dichtungen ausübt. Also bin ich sofort zu meiner nächsten Tankstelle gefahren und mit Biodiesel voll getankt. Gleich auf Bundesstrasse und bisschen durch die Gegend gefahren, damit RME alle Stellen in der ESP erreicht. Dann das Auto abgestellt und paar Tage nicht mehr angerührt. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, the pump was only wet, not leaking a single drop, and there was no air getting in; otherwise, I wouldn't have continued driving!!!
For the next two weeks, I constantly monitored my ESP, just to make sure nothing worse happened...
Und siehe da, die Pumpe ist wieder absolut dicht und trocken geworden. Also tankte ich weiterhin nur 100% RME. Alles ging gut, die ESP trocken. In diesem letzten Winter sind die Temperaturen mehrmals unter Null gesungen, und es war immer schwieriger den Motor zu starten. Und Startverhalten zu verbessern, habe ich dann halben Tank Diesel (Winterdiesel) zum RME dazugemischt. Startverhalten ist gleich besser geworden, leichterer Start und weniger Rauch. After a few days , I was able to observe small leaks again on the ESP .

From that point on, it became clear to me that from now on, I could only use biodiesel to ensure the 'permanent' tightness of my ESP. And by the word 'permanent,' I mean that nothing might happen for years, or perhaps something could happen tomorrow; who knows?

Currently, I have 126,000 km on the odometer, the ESP is working properly, and I only use 100% RME (biodiesel)(what else can I do?). Up to this point, there haven't been any other problems related to biodiesel. However, there have been a few other issues, such as a new timing belt, mass airflow sensor, and several tensioners for the ribbed belts.

Ultimately, like thousands of other affected customers, I was relieved to learn that my ESP (Electronic Stability Program) would eventually need to be resealed. VW quoted me a price of approximately €850 for the repair, Bosch quoted around €600, and my local independent workshop offered it for about €200.

I could write pages about Volkswagen's policies, but instead, I simply agree with other victims in assigning blame.

----------------------- Quote from bonze ---------------------
I have absolutely nothing against alternative energy sources, but I don't agree that the customer should be the one who ends up footing the bill. VW has made a fortune using 'approval' as bait, and they probably also pocketed subsidies for something that the vehicle isn't actually suitable for. This just can't be right!
'Die Sonne scheint hell und warm. Die Vögel zwitschern fröhlich in den Bäumen. Ein leichter Wind weht durch das Gras. Es ist ein wunderschöner Tag.'

'The sun is shining brightly and warmly. The birds are chirping happily in the trees. A gentle breeze is blowing through the grass. It's a beautiful day.'

It's particularly sad when people buy cars where the warranty has just expired and which still have less than 100,000 km on the odometer. Based on experience, the ESP systems typically start to leak after 100,000 km (which VW is quite happy about). The previous owner is pleased that they saved a few euros by using biodiesel, and the new owner has to pay for the expensive repair themselves.

The moral of the story is;

People who fill up with biodiesel aren't necessarily doing something good for the environment or their own wallets!
Because sooner or later, the cost of an expensive ESP repair must be factored in. Whether it will have been worth it with the supposed savings???

Hello,

Beautiful pictures, cheerful description.

Georg-TDI wrote:

There have been many cases where people were driven to ruin because of biodiesel...

I have 130,000 km on my AFN Galaxy, and I've never used biodiesel, except for the mass airflow sensor (MAF), which has caused no problems so far.

Best regards,
Christian.

I'd like to refer you to an older survey:

/viewtopic.php?t=1405&highlight=biodiesel

There's something I need to get off my chest that deviates from occasional reports:

I have never actually experienced any starting problems, not even with 100% RME in the winter. The normal preheating time is sufficient; it just takes 1-2 seconds longer to crank than in the summer, and then it runs. Is the SDI somehow technically superior when it comes to starting?

When it's very cold, there's a brief puff of white/blue smoke immediately after starting the engine.

I'd like to refer you to an older survey:

/viewtopic.php?t=1405&highlight=biodiesel
Thanks for the link. It's not a survey. As I said, it's not about opinions, but about facts. Everyone needs to know what they are doing regarding refueling.
Is anyone else interested in a Volkswagen Golf Estate (Variant), 1.9 TDI, manufactured in December 1997 (1998 model), located in the Gütersloh area and surrounding region?

bonze wrote:

Is anyone else interested in a Golf Variant, 1.9 TDI, manufactured in December 1997 (1998 model), located in the Gütersloh area and surrounding region?

Are you fed up with the TDI?
Do you have any new information?

Does anyone else need a Golf Variant, 1.9 TDI, manufactured in December 1997 (1998 model), and located in the Gütersloh area and surrounding region?

Are you fed up with the TDI?
Or are you coming up with something new???
Tja...Auf jeden Fall kommt mir ein Diesel wieder ins Haus. Ein Diesel ist einfach klasse. Ich werde mir wohl einen Focus Turnier 1,9TDCI mit 116 PS holen. Ich habe mal bei Ford gelernt und Ersatzteile kriege ich dort günstiger! Schnauze voll von VW? Wenn du mich so fragst: bis zur Oberkante des Kopfes. Ich hatte mit meinem TDI kein Glück. Erst die Pumpe, dann das R109, dann der LMM(vor 6 Wochen neu aber der erste) dann springt er warm nicht an und jetzt geht die Sau nur in den Notlauf weil laut VW der Turbo im Arsch ist. Der Wagen hat erst 170.000KM gelaufen! However, I don't trust the diagnosis from the Volkswagen workshop, and since I already started a thread about this issue here, both problems will be investigated by another workshop on Monday.I've already gotten enough suggestions here, and once again, a huge thank you for these answers!
Otherwise, I have to say (I've been driving this car for 4.5 years) that it's a great car! However, the high insurance costs don't really justify buying it, in my opinion (at least not in my case).
Jeder Hersteller will Geld verdienen..ist klar...von VW aber(das betrifft auch in meinen Augen den LMM was ein Fabrikationsfehler ist und vom 109 will ich erst gar nicht sprechen diese Verantwortungslosigkeit von VW) bin ich bitterst enteuscht!! Der Vorbesitzer fuhr Biodiesel und hat eine reine Weste, da er immer nach dem Normentwurf getankt hat! Ich hatte die Karre eine Woche, (72.000KM der Wagen war 2,5 Jahre alt) und der Parkplatz war mit Diesel übersäht. Erst wurde die Pumpe abgedichtet und danach sprang der Wagen kalt scheiße an. Nochmals das Teil zu Bosch und die haben mir den Totalausfall(Späne ect.) bestätigt. Folglich neue Pumpe und keine Kulanz, da ein Stempel von ner Tankstelle im Service-Heft war. HaHe was naturally quite involved in the matter. I've said it before:
While I can generally accept the cost of a faulty turbocharger, Volkswagen is responsible for the issue with the pump. They don't care about their customers, and I won't support such practices!
I'd rather buy another Ford; it will probably give me some minor issues, but those are things that don't cost a lot of money. Financially speaking, a Volkswagen is no longer what it used to be!
Sorry, dass ich das so sage aber ich habe echt bezl. des Biodiesels und entsprechender Freigabe einen sehr angeschwollenen Hals. Die Nulpen da am Telefon meinen eh, dass Sie einen verarschen können. Immer noch warte ich auf die Unbedenklichkeitsbescheinigung von VW zwecks Freigabe für Biodiesel ( werde ich bestimmt auch nie bekommen, wenn der hersteller diese nicht mal freigibt). Mein Kollege, der bei VW arbeitet, sagte mir, dass es ein Internes schreiben gibt, worin die Werkstätten angewiesen wurden, den Kunden den Biodiesel auszureden. I hope to receive that information soon so I can forward it to the ADAC.

Here's a little joke for you:
Go to a car dealership that isn't owned by Volkswagen or one of its subsidiaries, and just for fun, inquire about buying a car there while also mentioning you want to trade in your own. Then, tell them that the car you own has been running on biodiesel so far (even if it's not true)!
Let's see how you would think about biodiesel (the kind that's still available at gas stations, I mean).
I'm sorry that I may have become rude again towards the brand VW, which the person from the hotline also experienced.

bonze wrote:

I'm sorry that I may have become rude again towards the brand VW, which the person from the hotline also experienced...

... I can definitely understand that (as you may know from the previous issues with my AXR here in this forum), but other manufacturers have similar problems.
http://www.nie-wieder-bmw.de/bmw530d/
Unfortunately, this isn't a mass-produced product like those from Volkswagen, and the absolute number of people complaining about these vehicles is relatively small. The percentage rate isn't better or worse than that of other manufacturers either.

I'm sorry that I may have become rude again towards the brand VW, which the person from the hotline also experienced...

... I can definitely understand that (as you may know from the previous issues with my AXR here in this forum), but other manufacturers have similar problems.
http://www.nie-wieder-bmw.de/bmw530d/
Unfortunately, this is not a mass-produced product like those from Volkswagen, and the absolute number of people complaining about these vehicles is relatively small. The percentage rate is neither better nor worse than that of other manufacturers.
Yes, that might be possible, but which vehicle manufacturer has ever approved something that a supplier hasn't approved?
Why did Volkswagen probably do that?
Solely to attract customers and perhaps even secure subsidies!
More saddening is the fact that long-term tests regarding biodiesel probably did not take place or were deliberately concealed in order to make a profit. Why else would Bosch's warnings have been ignored? There is absolutely no excuse from Volkswagen's side. They are responsible for this, and now the customer has to bear the consequences. Is that fair? I don't think so.http://www.8ung.at/lifestyle/arsch.gif
Edit: Do you know why there hasn't been a recall for the LMM (likely referring to a specific component or product), for example?
Okay. According to ADAC, it's considered that this part is not safety-critical because Volkswagen has a fail-safe mechanism in place.
It's a shame, because then you would probably be at the top of the list for 'most frequent malfunctions.' If you didn't have this emergency program, there would probably be a mass airflow sensor (MAF) in every VW glove compartment, and customers would receive an introduction on how to replace it before taking delivery. By the way, replacing the MAF sensor with installation and the obligatory error reading cost me €203!
This is now irony... Irony is when you laugh even though...

bonze wrote:

Yes, that might be possible, but which vehicle manufacturer has ever approved components that the supplier hasn't approved?

.... BMW and DC!
They even went so far as to make things difficult for me. You had to order "additional equipment" for BD from the factory (extra cost of around 700 DM). The changes were minimal, and only a few cables were different. Just like with VW, the injection system was not approved by the manufacturer for use with BD. Unfortunately, you even had to forgo the warranty on these parts.

Quote:

Why did Volkswagen probably do that?

... in order to adapt to the market. Unfortunately, Volkswagen handled this very poorly. BMW and DC found much better solutions.
Other manufacturers didn't do that (as a precaution), and now they have a clear advantage.
While there have been long-term tests of Biodiesel (BD), a vehicle that is exclusively run on BD in demanding conditions rarely experiences problems. However, if BD remains in the fuel lines and injection system for an extended period, the aforementioned issues can arise. A mixed fuel operation is also problematic. Unfortunately, there are no long-term studies specifically addressing this issue, and that's where the root of the problem lies.

Quote:

... Edit: Do you know why there hasn't been a recall for the LMM (likely referring to a specific component or product), for example? Okay. According to ADAC, it's considered that the part is not safety-critical because Volkswagen has a fail-safe mechanism in place. .....

Not quite right.
If you look at the percentage of failures, it's still far from the threshold where the KBA (German Federal Motor Transport Authority) would order a recall. While the absolute number of defects looks very bad, that doesn't matter.
If BMW sold the same number of cars as Volkswagen, they would have the same problem with the mass airflow sensor (MAF) as Volkswagen. The MAF sensors in BMWs also fail very frequently. However, no one complains about it as loudly at BMW.

I also don't understand why they can't fix this. The mass airflow sensor (MAF) is, among other things, supplied by Bosch. Is Bosch unable to resolve the issue, or has VW installed incompatible electronics? Or why do these parts keep breaking down?
In meinen Fall war es so, dass der Wagen bevor ich ihn gekauft habe 1 Monat stand. Vielleicht haben die Dichtungen da den Rest bekommen. Wenn das so währe, dürfte man nicht mal 14 Tage in den Urlaub fahren, wenn man das Fahrzeug nicht nutzt. Oder vorher erst ein paar mal normalen Diesel tanken. Das mit BMW ist auch sehr traurig aber ich bin ja nicht betroffen. Zum Glück, denn einmal reicht mir und bei BMW ist die Reparatur bestimmt teurer. Ob die dort Kulanter sind??? No idea...

Okay, here's the translation:

'Edit: I just found this information about BMW and biodiesel:'

For the 320d and 330d Sedan and Touring models, an RME package can be ordered with a new vehicle order (part number: 201).*
For the 520d, 525d, and 530d sedans and touring models, the RME package (part number 201) can be ordered with a new vehicle.*
525 tds models have been available with biodiesel approval since March 1997.
The additional cost for optional equipment number 201 varies depending on the model and is approximately €200.00.


If the vehicle's manual states that the customer is responsible for repair costs, then that's acceptable. However, I don't know the manual, and if it says that you can use biodiesel without limits, I believe that applies equally to BMW as it does to VW when it comes to repairs on the fuel pump.

Now, it would be nice if we could return to the main topic of this thread. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy discussing other things!
If anyone wants to, you can add me on ICQ at: 139861798.

I also don't understand why they can't get this under control. The mass airflow sensor (MAF) comes, among other things, from Bosch. Does Bosch not have this under control, or has VW installed incompatible electronics, or why do these parts always break?

because VAG repeatedly and continues to violate the application guidelines!

By the way, the LMM (likely referring to a lambda sensor or similar component) is also not approved for use in biodiesel environments, just like the pumps.

CU Gremlin.