New question about chip tuning or tuning box

Hello,

Power boxes generally only increase the fuel injection amount; chip tuning usually also increases the turbo boost pressure and advances the fuel injection and delivery timing.

It is clear that chip tuning generally enables higher performance gains.
But let's consider similar tuning goals.

Okay, bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. ***, as a more moderate chip tuning specialist, offers 360 Nm / 114 kW for the ASZ engine, which is practically the same as what can be achieved with a Hopa box (both are theoretical values).
In both cases, the emission class remains the same.

Which strategy is preferable from the perspective of the material?

The ZKD (cylinder head gasket) suffers doubly during normal chip tuning, as both an earlier injection/fuel delivery start and increased boost pressure increase the peak combustion pressures.

An earlier start of fuel injection, thanks to the chip, initially lowers exhaust gas temperatures compared to a traditional setup.
The more aggressive turbocharger control provided by the chip increases the exhaust backpressure, which hinders the expansion of exhaust gases more than it would without the increased turbocharger boost. Consequently, the initially cooler exhaust gases from the chip cool down less before reaching the turbocharger compared to using a traditional boost controller, which at least reduces the difference in exhaust temperatures for the turbocharger.

Furthermore, as far as I know, modern "small" turbochargers often operate in a range of decreasing efficiency due to increased boost pressure at the maximum pressure (Pmax), which disproportionately increases the exhaust backpressure (relative to the boost pressure) and, in turn, reduces the engine's overall efficiency.

Can a meaningful tuning of the engine control unit, even with higher soot values, ultimately lead to a fuel efficiency advantage compared to conventional chip tuning?

Why does VAG use engines with power outputs ranging from 150 to 160 horsepower (ARL, etc.)? BPX) increases the boost pressure compared to the ASZ by approximately 0.2 bar, even though the EU3 emissions standard, with virtually the same performance data, can also be achieved by simply increasing the injection duration (= using a different ECU)?

I'm kind of losing track of things right now...

I'm kind of losing track of things right now...

It looks like...

/viewtopic.php?t=7079&highlight=chip+box
/viewtopic.php?t=4157&highlight=chip+box
/viewtopic.php?t=1079&highlight=chip+box

Your self-experiment with the much-hyped PD_Box didn't exactly go well. => Chip

I personally reject any kind of 'boxing' because it's not a proper tuning process (and that's what I expect from a good chip tuner), but rather just fiddling with sensor data.
Thankfully, this will soon be over, as can be seen from the ASZ (presumably a company or organization) known for its association with Gremlins. Regarding the BKM engine (which I believe is a 100PS PD engine in the Golf 5), the trick with the fuel sensor seems to work again. *wonder*

The injection point isn't generally located further 'forward' on the chip, but only when you're utilizing the extra performance. Somehow, more fuel must enter the combustion chamber within a certain time frame, right?
What you're describing is the type of terrain encountered in a Dakar Rally, traversing the desert, not your daily quarter-mile trip to the bakery.
My acquaintance's AJM engine's exhaust temperature struggles to reach 600°C under constant full throttle in the summer, but there's still plenty of room to go up to 750/800°C. Unfortunately, I don't have any temperature readings from before the chip tuning was done.

'Well-tuned engines don't produce more emissions than the standard versions, and the pit crew are mostly Russian.' In my opinion, an uncontrolled, massive fuel injection puts more stress on the components than a slightly increased boost pressure combined with an increase in fuel injection volume.

It's understandable that the loader is being driven more aggressively than before; you want to feel the extra power. However, the amount of stress the loader experiences depends on how heavily you press the accelerator.

Julian wrote:

Personally, I reject any kind of "boxing" because that's not tuning (and that's what I expect from a good chip tuner), but rather just tinkering with some sensor data. Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English. And in my opinion, an uncontrolled massive injection puts more stress on the components than a slightly increased boost pressure combined with an increase in fuel injection volume.

The might be different with the current processor power supply units.
They don't manipulate sensor data, but instead manually extend the injection times.
And they can determine both the engine speed and the (desired) engine load based on the PD control pulses received from the engine control unit.

So, you only need one pre-programmed map that, based on engine speed and the standard injection duration, determines the amount of fuel injection = extension of the opening time, and then the system operates based on that.

While, in theory, an IMO (presumably a specific technology) might be just as effective as a corresponding speed and load-dependent adjustment of the torque-generating control unit (possibly including soot and driver-demand adjustments), the concept of "uncontrolled massive injection" in the sense of a random generator becomes essentially irrelevant. -> After all, what better control does a customer of a conventional engine (CT) have over what happens inside their engine?

I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture of either option - I'm currently torn between CT and Box.

What bothers me about the latter is that it involves an additional set of power amplifiers for the PDE (pre-detonation chamber) in my car, and if they are not perfectly synchronized with the power amplifiers of the engine control unit, it could significantly disrupt the fuel injection -> leading to multiple injections, increased heating of the PDEs, and other issues if the extended hold time is not properly timed, etc.

So, if we replace uncontrolled, massive injection with a carefully planned multi-injection system using high-quality components, what disadvantages remain for the material?

Quote:

It's also clear that the loader is being driven more aggressively than before; you want to feel the extra power.

You can also feel a 20% increase in power when it comes from a box, without the charger having to work harder (it just gets hotter, due to the higher exhaust temperatures).

ulf, I can't shake the feeling that you would have preferred to buy an old Magirus truck.
'So, with a diaphragm pump and completely without any electrical components on the motor...'
enough torque and power, and it will easily last for 30 years...


SCNR

CU Gremlin.

Gremlin wrote:

ulf, I can't shake the feeling that you would have preferred to buy an old Magirus. "So, with a diaphragm pump and completely without any electrical components on the motor..." enough torque and power, and it will easily last for 30 years...

The last one would be good, but the power-to-weight ratio probably wouldn't be that great anymore - and what would I do with Lappi + VAGCOM then?

Give that adapter to a newbie on the forum and put the laptop in your Lotus Elise for watching movies... then the power-to-weight ratio will make sense.

CU Gremlin.

ulf wrote:

Why does VAG increase the turbocharger pressure by approximately 0.2 bar compared to the ASZ engine, for engines producing 150 to 160 horsepower (ARL and BPX), even though the EU3 emissions standard, with virtually the same power output, can also be achieved with longer injection times (= chip tuning)?

Hi!

As far as I understand, vehicle manufacturers must pass the EU emission test cycle, which includes measurements of NOx and other pollutants, in order for a new model to be approved. However, a modified vehicle only needs to pass the emissions test every 2 years, which is considerably easier.

mcgyver2k wrote:

As far as I am aware, vehicle manufacturers must pass the EU emission test cycle, which is required for the approval of a new model, and which includes measurements of NOx and everything else. A modified vehicle, however, only needs to pass the emissions test every 2 years, which is significantly easier.

Hm, as far as I know, a tuning modification for a parts approval certificate (?) also requires passing a "major" emissions test.
If it were only about the AU = soot value, for example, every tuner could disable the EGR system as a side effect .

[Speculation ON] Perhaps more lenient limits apply to tuning modifications considered "small-scale production" compared to large-scale manufacturers...?[Speculation OFF]

For example, ***, as a more moderate chip tuner, offers 360 Nm / 114 kW for the ASZ engine.
'...so, those are probably the values that can also be entered.'
...ultimately, the chip tuning/OBD tuning will likely result in a power output of around 120-125 kW and 400 Nm (depending on the original power output).
...I had tried several different tuning boxes (Python Tuning, Speedbuster, Alpin), all of which are microprocessor-controlled. The expected power output after tuning should be 114 kW and 360 Nm.
.....then, because these speakers always reacted with a slight delay, I did an OBD tuning. The difference was incredibly significant; it's not even comparable. The chip tuning was actually quite mild; the boost pressure wasn't even 0.2 bar higher than stock!
Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.
....my Leon Topsport TDI (with the ASZ engine) now has 1,500 km on it, and I'm going to have it chip-tuned again this time.
@Ulf
I am currently undecided between CT and boxing.

.......CT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! .....Since you always drive responsibly, there shouldn't be any problems with wear and tear!!
Regards,
Monchi.

Hi Monchi,

Leon Topsport TDI (ASZ) .....

Are you referring to the ARL?

I've personally driven 3 different chipped TopSport models... they have over 190 horsepower and over 400 Nm of torque. However, in 2 of them (I personally took one back to the dealer this morning), the clutch failed after less than 30,000 km. The standard clutch is completely overwhelmed. With a sporty driving style and a moderate chip, it will wear out the clutch much faster than you'd like. You might get the clutch replaced once under warranty, but for the second time, you should definitely consider a performance clutch. Sachs has something in their lineup rated for 460 Nm (not a sintered clutch) - but I don't have the prices in mind.

Just a quick note about the fast-paced TopSports.

Regards,
arne

You mean the ARL, right?
No, ASZ!!
.....top-level sports don't really exist in Germany anymore, that's why we have the FR!!
...in the Netherlands, in addition to the FR model (with the ARL engine), the Topsport model from 2005 with 130 hp (ASZ) is still offered... It was interesting for me because the comprehensive insurance class is quite low (compared to the 150 hp model), and I still get the cool look and complete equipment for under 17,000 euros!
'...fortunately, the 130 model has a longer gearbox (similar to the Ibiza Sport), which means it will also have a higher top speed (unlike the Ibiza Cupra, which is already close to its redline at its top speed).'
.....I've also heard about more frequent clutch problems with the 150 hp models, both in their standard configuration and when chipped, including both the Golf GTI TDI and the Leon Top Sport.

Regards,
Monchi.

...in the Netherlands, in addition to the FR (ARL engine), the Topsport model from 2005 with 130PS (ASZ) is still offered... It was interesting for me because the casco insurance class is quite low (compared to the 150 model), and I still get the cool look and complete equipment for under 17,000 euros!!

@monchi
under 17,000??? used or new? I also looked into a Leon TDI, but I couldn't find anything under 20 . Is there a website or direct dealers in the Netherlands?

Greetings and happy holidays to you all.

markus

@markus78
NEW, and naturally!
'Even if I take all the extras (navigation, leather, etc.), I'm not even reaching 20,000 euros? You can get a Golf V 2.0 TDI Sport for that price!'
......where do you all buy your cars? ...not from a German authorized dealer, or what?
Here are the most well-known EU importers.
www.stippler-automobile.de
www.juetten-koolen.de
Stippler is faster in processing, while Jütten Koolen is slightly more affordable!
...I only ordered the Topsport TDI with metallic paint (Luna Silver) and paid 16,990 euros (when picking it up from the Seat dealer in the Netherlands).
...he already has all the features you could need (or maybe not, if I think about Ulf).
Feel free to send me any further questions via private message... it's not really related to the topic anyway!
Regards,
Monchi.

And it's only cheaper if you buy it directly in the Netherlands. Don't be afraid of self-import; it sounds worse than it is. The only difference is that the registration costs €27 more due to the paperwork.