Bessere Reifen auf die Führungs- oder Antriebsachse | Posts 16+

Quote:

However, the Lupo TDI is certainly the most extreme example in terms of weight distribution, aside from the Lupo 3l (99) (lightweight tailgate, no spare wheel, battery at the front).

the 3L Lupo has the battery at the back... just for clarity

By the way, I'm driving a Lupo gasoline engine without ABS, and in my case, the good ones come to the front.

The Lupo 3L before the year 2000 has it at the front (just for accuracy). From the revision onwards, there is no magnesium rear door anymore. The weight distribution is significantly improved.

OT:

ok ... dann hatte ich letztens einen neueren in der Hand... Ich möchte mich nicht zu früh festlegen

So far, I, like most of you, have been changing the tires from rear to front and vice versa at the beginning of each season. Since I also drive a 6k Ibiza, which often wears out the front tires quickly, I was again this season with almost new front tires and almost worn-out rear tires. But what does it matter? As an Austrian, I believe it's more important to be able to get up a mountain in the snow than to worry about any potential dangerous situations. Furthermore, you can also do really cool drifting/poses in the parking lot *in a childish way*.

About 2 weeks ago, I took an exit from the highway. This exit is like a long, sweeping S-curve with a level change in the middle, sloping downwards towards the mountain. Okay, so: Initial downward trend, followed by a downward slope, and then a return to an upward trend after the middle of the S-curve.
At the beginning of the downhill, the speed limit is 100 km/h, and at the end, it's 80 km/h. At approximately 0 degrees Celsius and on a wet road, I typically enter the curve at around 110 km/h and then pass through the curve at 100 km/h. One must also say that in the summer, the curve is far outside the 130 km/h speed limit.
'Absolutely, at around 100 km/h at the beginning of the long, sweeping S-curve, the rear of the car lost traction - I tried to correct - 'wowowow' - the rear end spun out in the opposite direction .... this happened 2-3 times, then I also had a 200° spin. right in the middle of the three-lane (including emergency lane) highway exit.' When I finally came to a stop after 150 meters, I just thought, 'Thank goodness, there wasn't another car here, and the guardrails were so far apart

Well, this experience has shown me that it might actually be a good idea to think about the mounting of tires, or to carry snow chains with me, or simply to pay attention to the speedometer while driving *G*.....

Wanted to say that, regardless of whether the tires are worn on the rear or front, drivers who are driving quickly are generally much more dangerous in winter than drivers with worn tires in summer.

So take care, best greetings, p

Okay, but if you happen to be sick in the winter, it's almost normal (even though it's never happened to me), and everyone feels sorry for you.
If you're driving at speeds close to 80 mph in the middle lane of a three-lane, unrestricted highway during the summer, you'll quickly become the subject of ridicule among your neighbors.


Black ice, which (perhaps due to carelessness) you might have missed, is another matter.
However, I don't understand the idea of accepting a preventable effect in the event of an impending aquaplaning situation, plus increased understeer in dry conditions, without other disadvantages.

Ultimately, when changing the tires (on the cars discussed here!!!), you should probably do it sooner rather than later, because you really can't wear down the tires that much without encountering serious problems.
Of course, it is best to drive your tires well below the legal limit.

Hi,

Quote:

The rear-mounted ejector is always a problem when something unexpected happens.

When the rear comes around, you can steer in the opposite direction. If the car is understeering, you can only watch. (Let's just stay on the topic of water.)

Quote:

I'm not sure if I would have been able to drive quite aggressively in the rear with a high profile, but I would never have been so thrown around/damaged the car.

Why are you so sure that this wouldn't have happened with a higher profile at the back?
1.) If the tire floats with a lot of tread, then it will float even more with little tread. --> no advantage
2.) Wenn Sie glauben, dass das Heck verloren gegangen ist, weil die Vorderreifen zu gut und die Hinterreifen zu schlecht halten, dann ist das bei Aquaplaning nicht richtig: In dem Moment, in dem Ihr Vorderrad ins Wasser fährt und Sie nicht auf dem Gas bleiben, wird das Fahrzeug stark durch die Kräfte auf die Vorderachse (das verdrängte Wasser) abgebremst. If you're in that kind of condition and then drive the rear axle into the water, the back end will come!
I can already imagine how you think: The front wheel should float and glide smoothly through the water, while the rear axle, with its good tread, should not float but plow through the water. Unfortunately, this doesn't work due to the load change reaction. (or, more accurately: Only in an extremely narrow range)

It always helps: Adjusted speed and, for front-wheel-drive vehicles in tricky situations: Keep your foot on the gas and steer in the right direction.

Greetings
Micha

P.S.: Please send my regards to my guardian angel! You were really lucky, especially that there was nothing in the way, and you were able to "roll out" freely.

Oversteer = The rear is coming around, but you probably meant understeer.

Of course, I don't find understeer particularly appealing either, but it's the lesser of two evils when you actually want to go straight.
When aquaplaning, you're already going to be swimming, so it's important to me that you don't stand completely sideways when you regain some grip.

The issue of the load change reaction during aquaplaning is correct, but only applies if the steering is incorrectly manipulated at the wrong moment.
In practice, it is observed that the vehicle tends to understeer, resulting in significant deceleration. However, with proper steering correction, the vehicle remains stable in the lane. Conversely, even with identical (or even worse) tires, the vehicle can quickly enter a circular motion due to even the smallest differences in road incline.
When my car is unloaded, there's simply much more weight in the front, which is very noticeable during aquaplaning.
I tried it out, but unfortunately, only on a relatively flat area near Wasserlachen, because I don't want to risk damaging a second. To finally get to experience botany.

Of course, the best option is to simply not go swimming and always drive with new tires on both axles.
Well, each person in their own way.

Indeed, my luck was that there were no other riders nearby. I got stuck with the rear wheel in the mud (up to my knees if I had pushed through), and then I went sideways and crashed into an earth mound about 15-20 meters from the main road. The roof has captured the main energy.

my condolences,
- Well, you need your money for the repair or even a new car.
I would like to have sent you 2 new tires beforehand (also for your own benefit) - too bad, for the expensive lesson learned.
New strategy: "Good tires should be on both axles"

edit: however, I admit - when it's 3 mm, I also feel bad about just throwing it away,

Well, it has been a few years, and ultimately, it was my fault too. I simply misjudged the road conditions and the lighting.
This shouldn't happen, but that's life.

The car was sold to a Romanian, although technically everything was in good condition up to the axles, with 102,000 km on the odometer, but the body was completely warped, so there was really nothing to salvage.
Well, it was 600 euros, he probably paid 1000. Did he make a good deal on the engine, gearbox, seats and all airbags (including side airbags)? Well, overall, for me, it worked out with the insurance and the price of the new Lupo. So, I'm not complaining.
I also bought another Lupo from a different dealer where I had to leave the first one temporarily. Initially, they refused to give me a price for my car, but they insisted on selling me another one, because they would otherwise have charged me for the parking space. Then I investigated how they were reselling the car and put pressure on the dealership, as they had incorrect price expectations with the new Lupo.
At the end, I got the car for 7800 instead of 10000, plus a new N75 valve, paint, a full tank (with a level indicator), and everyone was happy.
The new Lupo was from the same production day, but without side airbags and with 60,000 fewer kilometers.
Since the insurance company had valued the old car at 9200, I was also able to get the increased premium from VK back.

It was quite similar to a Turkish bazaar, as the used car dealership from VW in Roth is Turkish. Only, everything was done over the phone, since I was in Hamburg. I came across that Lupo online by chance...

At the end, the insurance company secretly and quietly tried to increase my liability claim for €80 for the damage to the lawn. I knew how to prevent it.

A lot of trouble (I'll spare you all the details) because of my stupidity... but I don't want to complain, I could have done much worse.
Thanks to the roadside assistance coverage, we were also able to get a tow truck and a rental car at night on a Sunday around 8 pm for free.

Greetings

Olaf

Hi,

Quote:

but you probably meant understeer.

Yes, I have. I wanted to edit it, but I can't "send" the edited post. But I believe everyone understands what I mean, as I have described everything in sufficient detail.

Greetings
Micha

Hello everyone,

Regarding this topic, I would also like to add my own perspective ......

The question of where to mount the tires with the deeper tread, I had already discussed with a professional driving safety trainer several years ago.

This expert (at a major car manufacturer, where he works and also trains bodyguards/personal protection officers in driving matters) recommends regardless of the type of engine and vehicle:

The better profile should be on the rear axle

His justification:
'When the car starts to oversteer, it's called understeer. This can be corrected. 'When the car loses its side grip at the rear, it is called spinning.'

'And the argument that the heavy (TDI) front-wheel drive vehicle wears out the front tires much faster is correct, but it should not lead to the practice of replacing the tires with the significantly better tread pattern once a year, in order to then have a set of tires with the same tread depth again after two years...'
We are not talking about a difference of only 0.5 mm between the front and rear axles. That's definitely something you can do annually...

This approach is currently recurring in this very thrifty region of Swabia .......

Simply lower the front tires to then swap the rear tires to the front when buying new ones and of course have the new ones mounted.
One doesn't waste anything, but has a safer vehicle.

Basically, you should not exploit the permitted minimum profile depth of 1.6 mm. The next rainy day is sure to come. Around 2.5 to 3 mm, it all stops being fun...

Best regards,
Cashier

[Translating...]

Danke für die Unterstützung:

Mein Reden, genau das mache ich.
Natürlich weiss ich auch, dass das alle Sicherheitstrainer ausnahmslos predigen (auch beim Hecktriebler). Ich denke, das wissen hier auch die meisten Leser.
Mit dem Argument "der ADAC sagt das auch" wollte ich aber nicht kommen, da man ja derartige "offiziellen Auskünfte" durchaus in Frage stellen kann.

Ich wollte eher mit meinen eigenen Erfahrungen die Zweifler überzeugen und die "offizielle" Meinung unterstützen.

Gruß

Olaf

Das bessere Profil gehört auf die Hinterachse

Seine Begründung:
'Wenn der Wagen vorne wegrutscht, nennt man das Untersteuern. Das kann man korrigieren. Wenn der Wagen hinten die Seitenführung verliert, nennt man das Schleudern.'

Hallo,

ich gebe dem Profil vollkommen Recht, aber seine Begründung ist etwas 'naja'...

Wenn der Wagen untersteuert kann ich eigentlich garnichts machen, ausser zu warten, bis die Geschwindigkeit soweit gesunken ist, bis die Reifen wieder Grip aufbauen.
Solange gehts halt Rchtung Kurvenausgang...
Korregieren hiesse 'Lenkung auf', was ebenfalls Richtung Kurvenausgang geht.
Jedoch bleibt das Fahrzeug hierbei stabil

Korregiern kann ich nur das Übersteueren oder 'Schleudern', wozu ich aber entsprechende Fahrkenntnis gebrauche, da das Fahrzeug instabil ist

Daher wird IDR untersteuernd eingestellt, da der 08/15-Fahrer weniger Probleme hat und nur 'warten' muss, bis das Fahrzeug wieder stabil ist.

Gruss Jochen

[Translating...]

oldewurtel wrote:

... Wenn der Wagen vorne wegrutscht, nennt man das Untersteuern. Das kann man korrigieren.

Und wie macht man das?
Ein Fahrzeug was untersteuert gehorcht nicht mehr auf Lenkbewegungen und ist somit nicht mehr korrigierbar. Bremsen ist das falscheste was man dabei machen kann. Dabei ist das wichtigste beim Fz stabilisieren das man Geschwindigkeit abbaut. Gas geben bringt auch nicht die ersehnte Wirkung. Also hilft nur die Lenkung öffnen. Wenn dort aber der Straßengraben lauert, ist alles zu spät.
Für die Geradeausfahrt ist das aber wieder anders. Dort ist ein nervöses Heck nicht zu gebrauchen (siehe Bericht von Olaf).
Also ist diese oben gemachte Aussage ist viel zu pauschal.

Jochen_145 wrote:

Korregiern kann ich nur das Übersteueren oder "Schleudern", wozu ich aber entsprechende Fahrkenntnis gebrauche, da das Fahrzeug instabil ist

Genauso wird es beim Sicherheitslehrgängen gelehrt.