LL Service: What event can trigger it?

Besides the runtime (time and mileage limits) and engine load, could the request for a long-life service also be triggered by other events?

The background to my question is as follows:
On Friday afternoon, while driving home, the "Check brake pads" warning light suddenly started flashing. So, I immediately stopped by my parts supplier and bought brake discs and pads. As I was leaving, the "Service in 3000km" warning light suddenly started flashing. Great! I had to go back into the store and buy some oil and an oil filter.

Since my last oil change, I've driven approximately 28,000 km. Therefore, while I was close to my next service interval (I believe it's at 50,000 km for me), I think it's too coincidental that both events would happen at exactly the same time.

Therefore, my question is whether the brake pad wear indicator can trigger an early Low Level Service warning.
Based on my observations from the weekend, I believe that is quite possible.

What do you think about it?

Hello,
I don't think the brake light was actually the service light.
Your achieved mileage is fine; I'm at a little over 30,000 km.
Are your brake discs really 'worn down'?
Best regards,
Günther.

That certainly sounds plausible. However, I can't imagine that it would have any effect. How much material is left on the pads when the warning is triggered?
Then, a low brake fluid level should also trigger a warning, but it only displays "STOP" on the display and, according to my assessment, had no influence on the LL (Longlife) system of my wife's Golf. The father-in-law had checked the fluid level at some point and didn't tighten the cap properly, which triggered the warning a few curves later. This happened shortly after the Longlife inspection, and the service interval at that time was 31,000 km.

However, if the error is reported multiple times, it could have an impact, which, in my opinion, would make more sense.

Hi Günther,

gwg wrote:

Hello, I don't think the brake light was actually the service light. Your achieved mileage is fine; I'm at a little over 30,000 km. Are your brake discs really "worn down"?

The flooring was really almost completely worn away.
I also replaced the brake discs as a precaution (they had 1mm grooves). It can't hurt to do that after 73,000 km.

I'm not just complaining about the timing; it's also suspicious that the service indicators appeared at the exact same time.


@all
Influencing such events only makes sense if it happens during the last third of the service interval.
I imagine that this influence might only start to have an effect after reaching a minimum threshold (e.g., 15,000 km or 1 year). I have exceeded both of these intervals.

but I think it's too much of a coincidence for both events to happen exactly at the same time.

Therefore, my question is whether the brake pad wear indicator can trigger an early Low Level Service warning.


No, why should they? Some people also win the lottery with a 6, maybe you're one of those lucky people.

With usage varying, it's quite realistic to achieve a lifespan of 31,000 km (or possibly even 28,000 km), and the brake pads just happened to need replacing at the right time.

Julian wrote:

No, why should they? Some people also win the lottery with a 6, maybe you're one of those lucky people.

... I want to win the lottery, but it's not working out...

You might be right that it was just a coincidence.

Quote:

31,000 km of runtime (or perhaps 28,000 km?) are quite realistic, depending on usage, and the brake pads just happened to arrive at the right moment.

"There are still 28,3 thousand kilometers left in the current maintenance interval, and it will reach 31 thousand kilometers if I complete the entire interval."

Hello,
It looks perfectly normal!
Best regards,
Günther.

gwg wrote:

It looks perfectly normal!

Unfortunately, not quite.

The values for the rate of heat input and the thermal load had not yet reached the levels seen previously.
I've now found out that the brake pad monitoring system is included in the LL package.
I've now found out that the LL interval can indeed be shortened by worn brake pads.
Since the minimum values for both time and distance had already been exceeded in my case, the LL (Lifetime) service was triggered. Fortunately, I had already driven 30,000 km, which is within the "normal" range. However, it could also happen sooner... which would be very annoying.

']
I've now found out that the brake pad monitoring system is included in the LL package.
I've now found out that the LL interval can indeed be shortened by worn brake pads.


'It makes sense and is logical that the brake wear indicator is part of the low-level warning system. But how did you come up with that abbreviation? I couldn't find any such rule in the Audi documentation; it would also seem illogical.'

Imagine you just changed the oil, and 5000 km later, the wear indicator light comes on, shortening the recommended service interval... but shortening it to what? What kilometer value would make sense? For me, it would be 0, so that the brakes can be checked as soon as possible. However, the oil could theoretically still last for 45,000 km in the engine.

You should try manually triggering the wear indicator and then observe the AI's reaction. Have you tried that?

Julian wrote:

.... But how did you arrive at that abbreviation? ...

Relationships with an AI manufacturer...

Quote:

"I couldn't find such a regulatory mechanism in the Audi documentation; wouldn't that be illogical?"

Not necessarily.

Quote:

Imagine you just changed the oil, and 5000 km later, the wear indicator light comes on, shortening the extended drain interval... but shortening it for what?

In this case, the LL interval will not be shortened because the minimum runtime has not yet been exceeded (as I mentioned before).
"I would be furious with my mechanic if that happened. Checking the brake pads is part of the inspection, and at the very least, they should have given me a warning that it might be time to replace them soon."

Quote:

What kilometer value would make sense? For me, it would be 0, so that the brakes are checked as soon as possible. However, the oil could theoretically last for another 45,000 kilometers in the engine. You should manually trigger the wear indicator once and then observe the AI's reaction; have you tried that?

Yes, I have.
Exactly what I said is happening. The wear indicator is coming on, but nothing else (I haven't reached the minimum runtime yet).
I would need to try that procedure again after 15,000 km or 1 year, as that's when, according to my information, the service interval indicator should activate.

The entire process is heavily dependent on the AI software.

I have also observed that my AI reacts differently to the resetting of the interval than described in my research paper.
If I reset the interval (channel 2 to 0), a constant interval of 15,000 km (no learning) should be set. We've heard this many times before: "...no more learning after inspection...". My control unit resets the interval based on channel 45. If the value is 4, the interval is reset to the learning interval of 50,000 km (which can be read in channel 43). For the "LL gasoline" setting (value 2), the value is 30,000 km, and for "no learning" (value 0), the value is 15,000 km. In the case of coding to 0 (no learning), the channels for the oil type and thermal load (48/49) are no longer available.

Because of these settings in my AI, other adjustments are no longer possible. For example, it is no longer possible to adjust the display of energy consumption in my AI.

AI from Bosch, Hella, or Valeo?

What would be a reasonable minimum mileage? The value should only refer to the kilometers driven, as a brake doesn't 'deteriorate' while stationary.

Why doesn't the LL-Service actually consider the age of the brake fluid...? That would be something, wouldn't it?

Try setting the maximum LL value, for example, to 10,000 km, and then trigger the brake warning indicator.

My AI system is from Bosch (thank goodness), and the power consumption display can be adjusted perfectly, despite being manufactured in May 2003. However, Gremlin has had the same experiences with AI systems as you have.

Julian wrote:

AI from Bosch, Hella, or Valeo?

You seem to have forgotten a few things (including the company that supplies my bread, which also works for the VW Group).

Quote:

What would be a reasonable minimum mileage? The value should only refer to the kilometers driven, as a brake doesn't "deteriorate" while stationary.

While stationary, the wear indicator is unlikely to suddenly activate.
Meaningful minimum mileage requirements? According to my information, these are the minimum mileage requirements for the LL interval... so 15,000 km or 1 year.

Quote:

Why doesn't the LL-Service actually consider the age of the brake fluid...? That would be something, wouldn't it?

Wait and see... it will probably happen again... ... after all, all the workshops want to make money.

Quote:

Try setting the LL max value, for example, to 10,000 km, and then trigger the brake warning light.

"That won't work. I would have to have already driven 10,000 km before I could trigger the contact. Unfortunately, the LL runtime value is being recorded somewhere else."