Sport Brake Pads: Squealing Noise? (Zimmermann)

Hello fellow enthusiasts!

I'm having a small issue with the braking system on my A4 Avant, 10/96, AFN. The brakes are making a rubbing noise intermittently (sometimes more, sometimes less).

Because the brakes started to make a rubbing noise , I installed new brake rotors from Zimmermann (slotted) + brake pads from REMSA on the front at 135,000 km.
However, the rattling was only slightly better afterwards .
At 145,000 km, I also replaced the rear windows (Zimmermann brand, but without any ventilation holes).
At the same time, I disassembled the front panels again in order to thoroughly clean the mounting surface .
In addition, I upgraded to the highly-rated FERODO brake pads at the front and rear. This significantly reduced the squealing noise.

However, unlike the new rental cars (Touran, A4, 3-series BMW) that I often use for business trips, this car still exhibits a slight squeaking sound, even though the entire braking system has been completely overhauled!

Could it be related to the holes in the front brake discs?

Unfortunately, I haven't measured the runout of the brake discs yet .
Are problems with disc brake warping frequent, and should it be checked every time they are installed?

Best regards and thank you in advance.
K. Oldewurtel

Once, I had someone else install brakes for me (but since then, I've been doing it myself).
I wanted an Ate Powerdisc brake disc. However, ATU installed a perforated Zimmermann disc instead. I initially didn't want it, but they actually convinced me to keep it, so I left it installed.

The rest of the story is short. It was followed by extreme pad wear and excessive noise, or rather, rattling. Then, a 'Powerdisc' was installed with standard pads, and everything was quiet. The pads lasted a relatively long time. The braking performance is normal, perhaps with slightly less fading. I can only recommend the 'Powerdisc.'

Hello Martin,

Thank you for the informative response!

A question: What kind of car do you drive?

Best regards, Kassen.

Okay, I'm using a combination of slotted Zimmermann brake discs and Ferodo brake pads on the front. I've never experienced any rubbing or anything like that, and I've been using them for quite a while now.

The combination of pad and rotor disc can make a huge difference, as you've already reported. The Ferrodo pads already provided a noticeable improvement. However, 'pad X' from manufacturer Y isn't always exactly the same as 'X' from Y; the pad compounds can vary slightly, which can have a noticeable effect. I've experienced this myself with my Fiat; one set of standard pads didn't last 15,000 km, while the next set lasted more than three times as long.

It's probably not due to imperfections in the discs, as that would likely be noticeable through noises. A side impact is possible, but if it only happens occasionally, that doesn't quite fit the picture. Is the rubbing reproducible, or can you identify any specific conditions that cause it?

PS... Brake noise doesn't always have to come from the brakes themselves. If something in the suspension isn't quite right (e.g., a slight amount of play in one of the joints), it can also manifest as brake noise.

oldewurtel wrote:

Hello fellow builders! Because the brakes started to make a rubbing noise , I installed new brake rotors from Zimmermann (slotted) + brake pads from REMSA on the front at 135,000 km. However, the rattling was only slightly better afterwards . Unfortunately, I haven't measured the runout of the brake discs yet . Are problems with disc brake warping frequent, and should it be checked every time they are installed? K. Oldewurtel

Hello,
If the problem was present before and persists after the repair, the issue likely lies with the mounting surface for the wheel, the wheel bearing, the axle play, or the tires. Have the tires already been replaced?
Remove the wheel, screw the disc onto the hub to create pressure, attach a dial gauge, and rotate.
I haven't seen any new brake shoes with a large offset yet, but I have seen some that were already warped or damaged from overheating.
derteileklaus

Quote:

Are problems with disc brake warping frequent, and should it be checked during every installation?

Hello,

I just removed the windshield and brake pads that the previous owner had recently replaced (purchased from an aftermarket store) from my "new" car. They were brand new and already had chips in them. I bought the original parts from VW (which, of course, are about 3 times more expensive ), and: perfect!

In my opinion, accessories are not necessarily becoming better simply because they are being sourced from increasingly eastern suppliers.

I only buy original exhaust and brake parts now, based on various experiences.

hello Kai,
Well then, go ahead and spend your money however you like.
My batteries are manufactured in Germany, and so far I haven't had any returns that can be attributed to excessive tolerances.
Even at Zimmermann, they strive for good quality, as evidenced by the changes made to the Sport BS model with the torn seams, as I read in the forum.
To claim a "side slip," you can go to the dealer of your choice and get a new one, unless you haven't installed it correctly (e.g., no fingerprints on the disc, the hub is not flat or clean, etc.) or if you've measured it incorrectly or braked too forcefully. ''
What exactly is "original"? Quality and price go hand in hand - being cheap isn't cool.
dertileklaus (without self-promotion) feel free to use the "original" parts ''.

Hi Klaus,

The last example was the timing belt: After 12,000 km, it was only half intact. The independent workshop installed a timing belt kit from the aftermarket.

When I replaced it myself with a part designed for a different type of belt, it became clear why it had failed: The body of the tensioner pulley was made of noticeably thinner material, causing it to warp slightly when tightened, which then resulted in the belt slipping off.

Cool, right? I already understand that the parts dealer can laugh about it; after all, he doesn't have to be liable for the subsequent costs.

My laughter has definitely disappeared.

And besides, in cases of complaints, the customer is usually to blame anyway... they might have braked incorrectly, left greasy fingerprints, or something like that; in those situations, some dealers suddenly become very creative!

Quote:

When I then replaced it myself with a new OE set, you could see why it had failed.

It was probably scrap metal from China or something similar.

When choosing accessories, it's important to make sure the parts come from companies that are also suppliers for the original equipment.

Then it shouldn't cause any problems.

However, if you combine friction materials in braking systems that are not compatible, it can lead to problems.

Quote:

What exactly is original?

Parts that the manufacturer is legally authorized to sell, either with or under their own brand name, correct?

thank you, BM.
Since I personally install the products I sell, I know if they are any good.
"Even with brands like BS and Klötzen - did you know that ATE doesn't actually manufacture brake pads themselves?"

I certainly can't afford even ONE defective tensioner kit or timing belt. Believe me.
I once replaced a Bosal catalytic converter that had prematurely failed.
I also sell these BS units to a rescue service organization, and they are satisfied with them!
"Brake wobble isn't funny when your axles are broken! I would have been contacting them for a warranty claim 500 km later!"
I don't have a problem with that. "Too cheap" is too expensive.
"As BM wrote, they are using low-quality parts. This reminds me, did the Greens try to increase their profit margin by using cheap parts, or did they have to offer it at a low price because customers were very price-sensitive?"
I definitely have a box full of old ZR parts in the basement, and so far, I haven't heard anything negative about them - hopefully, that will remain the case.
derteileklaus

Quote:

OE quality is taken

Well, nowadays there are so many manufacturers, some of whom produce substandard products, that it's not easy for the hobbyist mechanic to distinguish the good from the bad.

What will result from this can be easily found by reading here.

'Cheap is too expensive' - that's a great saying!

Meanwhile, I've also been converted. My (original equipment quality) braking system is from ATU.
It really stressed me out. Although it lasted for 80,000 kilometers, the comfort, power, and safety were gone. The first 50 meters of braking and city braking were fine. But when braking from 160 km/h to 80 km/h on the highway, the car groaned (the whole car), and more and more pedal pressure was needed. (It was even the 288 system, which was more than oversized for a Golf 3 ).

But does anyone ever find the right path? What is fashion, vanity, brand prestige, image, and what is justifiable extra cost for genuine quality? It's becoming increasingly difficult in every area of life. Whether it's food, clothing, phone providers, or technology! At least when it comes to car parts and clothing, I'm already being smart about it!

What distinguishes the Fiat Bravo/Stilo (or whatever it's called) from the C-Class Sport Coupe? Does either of them have a legitimate reason to exist, or is the truth somewhere in between?

'When buying a car, people rarely think about the cost of a timing belt replacement! Some manufacturers include this in the price, but they tend to be more expensive initially, etc.'

Quote:

My (original equipment manufacturer quality) braking system from ATU

.

I've never heard of that, and certainly never seen a company with red stickers using something like that. Who knows what they sold you; it probably has very little to do with OEM.

"

ObenbeiMutti wrote:

"Cheap is too expensive" - that's a very good saying! (It was even the 288-unit Mammoth complex, which was actually more than oversized for the 3-hole golf course ).*

"Oh, I remember another one... I once visited a colleague's workshop and saw a Z 3 BS in the front."
Diameter G 2 (full disc) - I just laughed.
Z 3... More hype than substance?
derteileklaus

@BM..

No, it wasn't sold as OEM, but it was of the same quality as OEM.
OEM quality - not an OEM part! Back in the day, when I was still young and naive, I readily believed that. Especially since we had a rather familiar relationship with the employees at that place. The store originally comes from this area.

I was completely disillusioned when a seven-year-old boy named Muruk offered me a check at *** in MCH for free, after I had been to the TÜV (technical inspection agency) two weeks prior.
Approximately 2000€ in repairs are needed, and in reality, I am a liability to the group, someone who should not be dismissed .

@Teileklaus..

Have you ever taken a close look at the Z3 and Z4 models? They're incredibly flimsy and poorly made. The Z4, for example, wasn't even painted on the engine bay side, just primed. The interior trim turned out to be cheap plastic, etc. Compared to an SLK, the Z3 seemed really inferior at the time, just like the American ML compared to its competitors. These American cars simply didn't stand up to closer inspection. But the brake issue is even more serious. Was that a 1.6-liter engine with 90 horsepower?

ObenbeiMutti wrote:

@BM.. No, it wasn't sold as OEM, but it was of the same quality as OEM. OEM quality - not an OEM part!

"They now only offer Brembo and Zimmermann brake discs for my vehicle, and only Ferrodo brake pads. I consider the first brand to be "original equipment quality," and I wouldn't install the others. However, they were 50% more expensive, which made a regular parts dealer more attractive. This month, though, they had tires in my size at an unbeatable price. Including everything, they were only 10 euros more expensive than reifendirekt, where you only buy the tires. Otherwise, I only want them to perform a battery and light test for me..."