Accumulated NW damage in PD motors?

Hello,

worn-out tips in case of late sleepers /viewtopic.php?t=20201&highlight=
Unfortunately, they don't quite fit the theme I've found, so I'd also like to discuss the main points here.

Source:
tdituning.org/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4844

Recently, there have been an increasing number of reports of faulty fuel pump nozzles in engines with camshaft-driven pumps.

The damage pattern is usually the same: the valve operating cams wear out at the highest point, until the hardened layer is completely worn away, and the cam shaft is fully seated in the hydraulic cylinders.

. . . I have this defective cylinder head lying in the workshop, it belongs to a 115PS PD engine.
At the highest point of the first groove (exhaust valve 1), there is a gap of approximately 3-4mm. The piston itself only has the cylindrical part remaining; the running surface is completely missing.

From my regular dealer, I know of at least 3 other cases that were repaired last year, including 2 ARL motors.

The repaired engines were all well-maintained according to VW standards....
...One also frequently encounters reports of such defects in various other forums...
Some of them exhibit significant wear throughout the entire shaft, not just in one specific area...

. . .

Some believe that this is due to the reduced additive packages in the 507.00 oils, which were changed for vehicles with particulate filters, and that the 505.01 oil would actually be the better oil for the PD engine....

Are there any further details available within our team?

ulf wrote:

Source: tdituning.org/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4844

"Unfortunately, you are not permitted to access this page. "You do not have the necessary permissions to access this page."

pschaefer wrote:

“Unfortunately, you do not have permission to access this page. You do not have the necessary access rights to view this page." I understand.

Therefore, I have copied the main points above so that everyone can follow along without having to register

Hello Ulf,

The last PD TDI I saw with the camshaft was an ARL with approximately 166,000 km. There was no sign of wear and tear.

Best regards, Rainer

I have an AJM with 207,000 on the odometer, and the condition looked very good during the recent PDE replacement. There were no issues.
Then we also have an ASZ with 110,000 and an AXR with 140,000. My parents have never had any problems with the NW. Not at all.

It could also be that the NW (presumably referring to "nicht PD Öle" - "non-PD oils") die, due to occasional use or improper handling, become unusable, and nobody wants to know or prove anything about it...depending on the perspective.

teileklaus wrote:

It could also be that the NW die to "non-PD oils" occasionally, which no one wants to know about or prove later on...depending on the point of view?

Of course, this is conceivable.
It should have been like this all along - but as soon as the first workshop-repaired old engines (probably with WIV) and the new, DPF-compatible oils had gained some mileage, (apparently) there were again reports of NW damage.

IMO, this is too closely aligned with the conversion of VAG oil standards to ash-free, DPF-compatible blends, where the PD (Performance Data) compatibility is apparently being "conveniently" verified by the new standards, which include the old ones.

Here are the "best" images of the damage to the AJM, with permission from the author:

According to the oil theory, the engines that have been "plagued" by WIV oil after 506.01 should then also wear out.

The "DPF-compatible broth" according to 507.00 indicates a better HTHS value and should therefore counteract the NW wear. The 506.01, however, has probably not been produced anywhere for quite some time, as it was sold by the kilometer.

Greetings
Peter

So, the error images shown here are all not PD typical and certainly not Diesel typical.
I am also familiar with numerous similar errors from other engine types.

If I want to trace these error images back to the 50700, then I also need to examine the other areas of the lubrication circuit that are experiencing higher loads (piston bearings, cylinder bore surfaces, PDE drive...). If the problem lies in the general oil quality, then there should be at least as many instances of this issue as in the NW drive.

The images shown here appear to me to be more indicative of a prolonged lack of lubrication or, more seriously, significant material defects. In particular, the hardening process of the camshafts is not always optimal and consistent over a large production period. Low manufacturing tolerances, which then further complicate matters, also contribute, and the damage is inevitable.

The valve drive should be able to be supplied with verschandeln oil from any standard source. This is also important for a PD (gasoline direct injection) engine. I can't see any connection to the 50700 there.

Okay, I have the same problem, but it's not as bad. I've always used 5W40 505.01 Fuchs Titan, and I've driven around 210,000 km.
as you can see in the picture, the cams are surrounded by a groove. this groove is missing in mine, which is why there is also a slight ridge. however, the hydraulic cylinders still look good.
I still have 2 PD heads lying around that show the same image, instead of a phase. Everything else is also in good condition. However, I don't know the mileage of the heads.

EMSimASZ wrote:

.... I still have 2 PD heads lying around that display the same image. ...

I have 6 NW (presumably "Neuwagen" - new cars) from gasoline engines that also show these error codes, and three more from VP (presumably "Verbraucherpreis" - consumer price) diesel engines, but only one from a PD (presumably "Partikelfilter" - particulate filter) engine.

Sorry, I can't identify any connection to the PD Motor.

Welcome to the club

Does the image mislead, or are the cams narrower than those on the VP, for example, like my old AAT?

christians wrote:

Does the image mislead, or are the cams narrower than those on the VP, for example, like my old AAT?

They are narrower...

"In principle, there would be a possible connection, as gasoline engines would be more heavily stressed by the higher speeds, but this would, in turn, be compensated for by a better lubricating film, which would also allow for higher sliding speeds."
Regarding the V6 TDI engines, it's also not entirely clear, but it is clear that weaknesses in the hardening process lead to defects in the design or... Quickly reveal the lubrication.

I recently saw a post in this forum about the 'reconstruction' of the oil circuit in PD engines.
read: 'Oil filter in the by-product stream'. Perhaps the filtering effect regarding... Scraping
Due to the design, it is weaker and causes such problems. Does the side stream system exist?
Also, continuing in CR?

Regarding I also recently got some camshafts from a mechanic at a 'Technik-Smalltalk' event.
This means that wear and tear cannot always be directly correlated to mileage. He
I'm particularly referring to {PLEULLAGE SHROUD} but also {CAMSHAFT} can be very affected by low
RPM and idle speed are significantly affected. He described it as abrasion only occurring under load of the
Motors that are 'washed away' from the areas where moving parts are located. Briefly without
Regular loading and speed changes lead to microscopic metal abrasion.
greater wear than would be expected based on the mileage. -> He had an answer
withdrawn, whether there is a connection to the newer oil specifications, since
this would be specific to VAG.

Best regards

neubaupe wrote:

I recently saw a discussion in this forum about the "reconstruction" of the oil circuit in PD engines....

Applies to all VW engines... including the gasoline engines based on the 827 series.