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Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme

 

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mJudge
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Post23-02-2003, 22:07    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Quote

Hello,

for some time now, my vehicle has been starting very poorly when warm.
In the cold, it only takes about 1 second, but when the engine is warm, I have to keep the starter engaged for about 5-6 seconds before the engine starts.
Mileage: 105,000 km
Year of manufacture: 07/98
Engine code: ALH / 66Kw
The timing belt was replaced at 90,000 km, but this problem was also present before. Diagnostics have never shown anything.
Regards,
mJudge
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Julian
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Post24-02-2003, 8:28    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post24-02-2003, 9:35    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Julian
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Post24-02-2003, 14:02    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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ulf
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Post24-02-2003, 18:47    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Julian
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Post24-02-2003, 19:59    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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98er_alh
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Post24-02-2003, 22:33    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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ulf
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Post25-02-2003, 19:26    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post25-02-2003, 21:11    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post25-02-2003, 21:35    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post26-02-2003, 7:43    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post26-02-2003, 9:20    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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Post26-02-2003, 11:17    Title: Golf IV TDI 66KW ALH Warmstartprobleme Being translated...

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ulf
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Post26-02-2003, 17:46    Title: Still mysterious (for me) Quote

Hello

It's understandable that you can "tune" a starter by reconnecting internal connections, cleaning, and lubricating.

It's also clear that the willingness to start decreases rapidly with the starting speed due to increased leakage, lower injection pressure, and increasing compression loss.

However, I still don't understand why the TDI engine often hesitates to start after a warm-up, even though it starts well when cold:

Shouldn't everything be lost in a diesel engine if it doesn't start immediately?

IMO, the optimal ignition conditions should be around the 2nd compression, when the starter has just fully brought the engine to speed. After that, the starting speed should gradually decrease as the starter winding continues to heat up and the battery also starts to fail.

Therefore, the conditions are actually getting worse the longer the engine is "geholt". Nevertheless, the engine usually starts eventually - and I'm wondering:
[b]why bother at all[/b]
icon_question.gif icon_question.gif

Initially, I thought that the accumulation of unburned diesel in the cylinder heads with each unsuccessful injection would increase the compression ratio, allowing the engine to start even with a low RPM.

However, rough calculations suggest otherwise:
A generous estimate of 20 mm³ per stroke would fill the approximately 24 cm³ combustion chamber of a 1.9 engine by 0.08% per injection. Before a truly start-improving compression increase could be achieved (at approximately 4 injections per second and cylinder), the starter and/or battery would likely have given up long ago.

Or should the EDC gradually increase the injection amount during the starting process until the engine eventually starts? Then, it should happen much faster, instead of stressing the driver, battery, and starter for up to 10 seconds or more??

Or does the compression heat only initially dissipate significantly into the surrounding material (as mentioned above), and while the upper layer of material heats up further with each compression, the peak temperature can increase accordingly, effectively "overcompensating" for the declining RPM?

In my tractor, the problem definitely lies in the late injection timing. While the fuel injector is slightly opened during warm-up, interrupting its electrical connection (earliest possible injection start) did not significantly improve the warm-start.

Perhaps I am simply missing something. It would be great if someone could help me . . . icon_redface.gif
Gruß Ulf
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Gremlin
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Post26-02-2003, 18:33    Title: Re: Still mysterious (for me) Quote

[quote='ulf']
It's definitely not my tractor that's having problems with starting too late. While the fuel injector control valve opens slightly during the warm-up, interrupting its electrical connection = the earliest possible fuel start did not clearly improve the warm-up.

Maybe I'm just missing something. It would be great if someone could help me... icon_redface.gif
Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate. I will translate only the readable text, leaving the HTML tags, BBCode tags, and URLs as they are.
Now you must remember that the start of injection or more precisely the position of the fuel injector for the start of injection depends on the pressure in the pump interior. And this is proportional to the pump speed. That's why the minimum speed of 300 (starter) or 150 (pump for 4-cylinder) is prescribed. Otherwise, the pressure generated by the pump is not sufficient to control the injection start sufficiently early. To find out, you would have to measure the interior pressure at start.

The fact that it might eventually start could be due to the fact that the wings of the fuel pump do not fully close and that, after a long struggle, they eventually make good contact with the wall and the pressure increases. At normal operating speeds, this is not a problem (centrifugal forces). This is a possible scenario...

CU Gremlin
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eike
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Post26-02-2003, 19:34    Title: Re: Still mysterious (for me) Quote

Hi everyone,

I think the suspicion is going in the right direction. If he injects fuel and it still doesn't start, then when it does start later, he would definitely have a large cloud of smoke coming from the exhaust.

I don't think the fuel pump can run so slowly during starter operation that a diesel puddle accumulates on the piston.
Insufficient compression wouldn't actually be the cause either. Then he would also have to blow out a thick cloud of smoke.

Maybe we should try a test: cool the ESP with a water hose while the engine and starter are hot, and then see if it starts better.

Best regards,

Eike
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