ALH Warm Start Issues: Starter Motor Problem Solved

Hello everyone,

My ALH engine (in my Golf IV) has been having a warm start problem for quite some time now, and it's getting to the point where I feel like I could recite all the troubleshooting steps by heart. This issue has persisted for over three years, initially with slight improvements achieved through cleaning contacts, increasing the fuel injection amount, and other minor adjustments. Subsequently, I attempted to rebuild the starter motor myself every six months, and it seems that on the third attempt, I managed to achieve the best possible starting performance. This lasted for about a year, so this winter, out of sheer desperation due to increasingly difficult starts, I bought a new battery (Berga Powerblock) and added additional wiring to the starter motor and the transmission, as well as cleaning the connection between the transmission and the starter motor again.

Well, the same problem has been happening for two weeks now. The battery is good, and the alternator is charging at 14.4V, but I think the old starter motor would work if it didn't constantly fail. So, I invested again and ordered a starter from Yabazzo because I don't want to disassemble that non-original starter from 2007 again, which seems to be failing repeatedly this time, apparently due to the magnetic switch (despite inspection and lubrication). After what seem to me like optimal conditions for the new starter, I was disappointed. It takes at least 6-7 seconds of cranking before the engine starts. However, it does make less noise than the old starter.

I specifically didn't buy the cheap eBay starters, but at least one that had positive reviews from some users here in the forum. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite good enough for a genuine part. Has anyone else besides me had bad experiences with a starter motor from Yabazzo? Because apart from "this version," Yabazzo was usually my go-to supplier, so I ruled out a faulty purchase. The order number came from the warm start thread with positive feedback. Also, I only measured fluctuating starter speeds of 230-270 RPM in those 6-7 seconds, and I don't know what the old one was doing, but that seems pretty close to the limit, doesn't it?

If it's not already a good idea to stop searching at this point, I have already completed the following tasks:

- Mass points, unlabelled.
- Additional cable from battery to chassis to transmission.
- Battery terminals cleaned.
- Transition from starter to transmission, polished.
- Increased starting amount by 400.
- New injectors as part of the Stage 1 tuning.
- Various settings for the start of the support, currently ranging from mid-level to upper level.
- After 3 starter motor replacements (shaft, planetary gear, collector between contacts, etc.), then a complete starter motor replacement.
- It seems to me that the new starter motor is still about a centimeter longer than my old one.
Diesel filter, + valve (VW).
- No air bubbles larger than 1 cm in the tubing.
- Fuel cap checked.
- Tests an versch. Inclinations.
- Voltage when starting: approximately 11V.
"Allowing the engine to roll over enabled it to start immediately."
- Mileage: 240,000 km, Year of manufacture: 1998.
- Check the shut-off valve.

Perhaps I've overlooked something important, because I fear that if I have to start working on the fuel injection pump, it will exceed my level of expertise.

Best regards, Steffen.

Have you ever tried seeing if it starts better with a properly adjusted dual-temperature sensor?
Are the temperature values plausible?

I forgot to mention that the sensor is new, genuine, and the readings are plausible.
Subtracting didn't improve the situation.

Best regards, Steffen.

Hello,

Check to see if you can record the starting speed in case of an error.
Oops, reading is important.

Quote:

The 6-7 second value is just a fluctuating starter speed of 230-270 RPM.

Not enough.

Either increase the starting speed to the "normal" value (> 280 rpm), or have a chip tuner adjust the data set to allow activation at lower speeds.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hello,

I already suspected that, so I'm ruling out the entire engine as a cause of the problem. Let's focus on the essentials: a fresh, charged battery connected to the starter with good cables (including extra ones) and proper connections, but still not enough speed. This all points to the starter motor.
Hopefully, they will be understanding and accept the starter back, as it clearly doesn't work in my case (it's a rental workshop, so there's no installation invoice). At least, eBay sellers often seem to object to this.

My only hope now would have been to find an original starter motor from a scrapyard and have it refurbished for €120, I just found out.

I'm going to give one more eBay auction a chance. It's for what appears to be a refurbished original starter motor, and it costs under €100. Is it worth trying, or will it just be wasted money?

Lowering the starting torque would also be an option, but I'd rather not try to hide a weak starter motor, especially since I paid full price for it.

Best regards, Steffen.

I once bought a starter motor accessory from my former military exchange store, and it performed significantly worse than the original one. I had to have one replaced under warranty, and I returned the second one as well, opting instead to buy a used but fully functional original part. That one then worked as expected.

Here's another approach: What if the engine is difficult to turn over?
Valve cover is off, all the hydraulic lifters are just installed, and the head isn't damaged around the lifter bores, right?
Are all the camshaft lobes in good condition? Are all the lobes resting on the hydraulic lifters?
Stell dein Fahrzeug heute abend mal ohne Kuppeln ab und nehm mit etwas Kraft den Gang raus und lass ihn im Leerlauf stehn! NO DOMES!
Tomorrow morning, when you start the car, try simply turning the key WITHOUT pressing the clutch to see if it starts better. Yes, I know that's a rather unusual suggestion, but it's definitely worth a try.
(Hintergrund die Motorlager haben beim Kuppeln Axiale Krafte und noch garkeinen Oldruck beim auto anlassen daher mein Rat, Fahrzeug im Leerlauf anwerfen. (DISCONNECTED)
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Best regards," or "Sincerely," (depending on the context)

bubu wrote:

Hello, Fresh, charged battery connected directly to the starter motor using suitable cables (+additional ones) with good contacts, resulting in low RPM.

Even with batteries, one can be mistaken, as the example from Banner shows.

bubu wrote:

My only hope now would have been to find an original starter motor from scrap and have it refurbished for €120, which I just found out.

It can be disassembled to replace individual parts like worn bearings or the brush plate; it's not rocket science.



/viewtopic.php?t=22819

Apfelsaft wrote:

Another approach: what if the engine is difficult to turn over?

Probably not.
What is this supposed to mean? / What's the meaning of this?

Hello everyone!

Was der A-Schorle denkt, möchte ich zwar auch zu 99,8% ausschließen, aber es gibt bzw. gab tatsächlich mal Probleme in der Hinsicht bei Käfer-, T2, T3, ... BENZIN motors.
Then the problem would manifest as the starter motor occasionally struggling noticeably, but on the next attempt, even a couple of seconds later, it would work perfectly fine.

BoboBär hat das Problem aber immer, somit scheidet Axialspiel der Kurbelwellenlager m. E. out.
Start with the most likely cause: replace the starter, THEN investigate further .

Best regards from Munich!

Hello!

It might also be useful to consider this from time to time.
to explore the necessary warm-start speed.
A quick search here in the forum yielded results of around 300-350 RPM, but without specifying the model. Maybe someone knows the exact value.
That can be easily measured using the diagnostic software if the engine doesn't want to start...

I've experienced a similar problem with my ALH engine before, and in that case, it was definitely the battery.
It would always start immediately at temperatures below -15°C.
and if the engine was warm, it wouldn't do it anymore.
The starter motor is and remains the original one.
I also always have some concerns about online banking and internet services.

dieselschrauber wrote:

... oops Reading is fundamental. Quote: The 6-7 second value is just a fluctuating starter speed of 230-270 RPM. Not nearly enough. ...

Sorry.
Didn't read/understand everything correctly.
So, a minimum of 280 revolutions per minute.

Does anyone have any idea why this was done?

Bosch starters likely have a power output of either 1.8 or 2.0 kW (possibly depending on the year of manufacture), while Valeo starters offer options of 1.8 and 1.9 kW.

Steffen G wrote:

... Does anyone have any idea why it was done this way?

In my opinion, primarily protection against ZMS.

Best regards from Munich!

Okay, hello everyone.

Today, I decided to get a new starter motor, and I wanted to find one at a price somewhere between what Volkswagen charges and the prices you pay for starters that can't even achieve 300 RPM.

This morning, I happened to find a company in Saarbrücken that took back my old, broken starter motor and gave me a refurbished Bosch starter in exchange. Incidentally, this one was also identical to my original one in terms of its housing length, which turned out to be a Bosch starter as well. Of course, I didn't realize it, and I'm not even sure how the employee there recognized it.
That certainly explains why the old, broken starter motor spun faster than the new one from Anlas[*]er24.

"Now the ALH definitely starts up as if it just came off the assembly line, and the starting speed is noticeably higher. The price was €140, which I can live with."
Now I hope that I can return the defective starter motor without any problems; you read all sorts of incredible stories about that online. That's precisely why I didn't want to buy one from eBay or other online marketplaces, but initially, I had no idea where else to get one, as I couldn't quickly find anyone else who seemed trustworthy. I have contacted a large supplier in Berlin, but I became somewhat skeptical after receiving their (albeit friendly) email because it seemed contradictory that they could accept returns on generic starters while only offering genuine parts.

By the way, I'm going to record the starter speed of my new starter motor sometime soon; I'm actually quite interested in that now. Just two days ago, I was convinced that a minimum speed of 300 RPM was correct, but then other people with cars told me lower values were acceptable. So, I wasn't entirely wrong after all.

@RedR32
I've also had my experiences with banners; I was initially quite enthusiastic about the Runningbull, but now I'm glad it's gone. When I think about how much cheaper the current Berga banner was, I'm already annoyed again.

I would like to thank you all for your help.

Best regards from Saarbrücken.
Steffen.

EDIT by DBär: Dealer names made unrecognizable .