Methanol in diesel?

Hello.

My parents own a distillery, and as a result, a significant amount of foreshots (methyl alcohol) is produced annually.
This methyl alcohol is not edible (it smells like glue) and must be destroyed or disposed of properly. Just now, the customs officer told me that it could be compared to diesel or heating oil.
It occurred to me that I could potentially use diesel mixed with alcohol in my TDI. Does adding alcohol have a performance-enhancing effect? To what extent can I go, or would it be better to just not do it at all?
'Who is familiar with this?'
I've only heard that diesel engines used in tractor pulling are sometimes run on alcohol.
What do you think?

I haven't tried it yet, but I suspect that very little methanol is soluble in diesel.
The high auto-ignition temperature of methanol could be problematic, as it is likely to lead to poor ignition quality in diesel engines: This could result in a harsh combustion process and potentially make starting the engine more difficult.

And the ESP is fuel-lubricated - If you add a strong solvent to it, especially one with a high water content...

As far as I know, it doesn't mix well either.

Fuels that are currently not being tested at RB.
and did not receive approval for deployment:

- Gasoline
- Petroleum and other types of kerosene.
- Alcohols (methanol, ethanol, isopropyl alcohol as antifreeze, etc.)
- Diesel fuel with additives that are available in automotive supply stores (e.g., lubricants, flow improvers, cetane improvers, etc.).
- Diesel fuel containing dissolved water.
- Diesel fuel-water emulsions (Aquazole).
- Diesel fuel mixed with used oil.
- Diesel fuel with the addition of biocides.
- Marine distillate fuels (e.g., ISO 8217) *
- Heating oil (e.g., BS 2869) *
* including additives for diesel fuel.

CU Gremlin.

Hello Golfman,

I would add methanol to an older gasoline engine (10-20%) and use the money saved to buy proper diesel fuel. It's definitely cheaper than replacing the entire fuel injection system.

Sincerely,
Christian

Hello Gremlin!

"RB" can refer to several things. It could be a person's initials, a company abbreviation, or a sports team. Without more context, it's impossible to say for sure.

Why does heating oil leak through rust?
Heating oil is essentially the same as diesel, aside from the tax implications. The only difference is the cold resistance; heating oil cannot withstand freezing temperatures and will freeze.

The fact that heating oil is 100% identical to diesel is evidenced by its use by transportation companies, public transport operators, municipal utilities, etc., which have official permission to use heating oil as fuel. A friend of mine who works at a large petroleum distribution company in Garz also confirmed to me that diesel is either sold as diesel or as heating oil. Depending on the intended use, only the dye or additives (only in winter) are added to the diesel.

So, why wasn't it approved then?

And what about those so-called "Aquazoles"? Haven't they been tested for a long time? Can ESPs (Electrostatic Precipitators) withstand this mixture? Forget about lubrication?

Best regards, Peter.

Hello Gremlin!
Who or what is RB?

Robert Bosch.


Why does heating oil leak through rust?
Heating oil is essentially the same as diesel, aside from the tax implications. The only difference is the cold resistance; heating oil cannot withstand freezing temperatures and will freeze.

No. Heating oil belongs to the same distillate group as diesel. While diesel is further refined for use in engines, this is not necessary for heating oil.
The lubricity of heating oil plays a role that is just as minor as factors like the cetane number, sulfur content, or viscosity.
If you want to use heating oil as fuel for engine purposes, either the injection system must be designed for it, or you need to add additives.
Please avoid getting into fundamental discussions with the neighbor about their /8 or truck. The old rotary injection pumps in the diesel engines (with their laughable injection pressures) are known to last a very long time.


And what about those so-called 'Aquazoles'? Haven't they been tested for a long time? Can ESPs (Electrostatic Precipitators) withstand this mixture? Forget about lubrication?

No. Therefore, no approval.

By the way: Alcohol is unsuitable due to its hygroscopic properties and should not be added to gasoline. Gasoline engines also have many components that are susceptible to corrosion (especially FSI engines).

CU Gremlin.

Quote:

btw: Alcohol is already unsuitable due to its hygroscopic properties, and it should not be added to gasoline either. Gasoline engines also have many components that are susceptible to corrosion. CU Gremlin

Gasoline has contained alcohol (since the 1970s?) to help absorb condensation.
Back then, there were also corrosion problems with carburetors, as the material they were made of couldn't withstand it. Generally, zinc die-casting alloys are a problem when running on methanol. For example, model engines run on methanol, but they are designed to handle it. However, if you use a similarly large chainsaw engine with it, you will encounter problems.

Hi Ralf,

Try to strike up deals with the local model airplane clubs! As far as I can remember, model airplane fuel was anything but cheap.

Best regards, Rainer.

If you want to use heating oil as fuel for engine purposes, either the injection system must be designed for it, or you need to add additives.
Please avoid getting into fundamental discussions with the neighbor about their /8 or truck. The old rotary injection pumps in the diesel engines (with their laughable injection pressures) are known to last a very long time.


I can assure you: I've seen TDIs that have easily exceeded 100,000 km with this illegal fuel without any problems.

Marine diesel fuel also works.

I personally don't use that kind of fuel because I live in a house with gas heating, and the idea of using 'cans' seems too inconvenient. And furthermore, it is prohibited and leads to tax evasion.

I can also provide you with hundreds of examples that demonstrate the use of heating oil as a common fuel. These include some of the most modern common-rail engines from Mercedes and other newer vehicles. There are even special exceptions where entire fleets of vehicles use heating oil that has been officially re-colored.

So, are they all doing something wrong now? Where, then, lies the true middle ground?

"It's not that I want to drive on heating oil, but if there are lists like that that contain contradictory statements, how credible is the rest of the list?"

Greetings, Peter.

Hi,
If I may ask, what quantities of methanol are we talking about that are generated annually?
Okay, before I dispose of something expensive, I would first clarify the following questions:
Methanol is used to transesterify vegetable oil with sodium hydroxide to produce biodiesel. Therefore, it should have a marketable value and be sellable to biodiesel producers.
2. Could this material also be used to heat the building (in a suitable heating system/oven)?
3. If it's not going to be injected directly into the engine by the fuel injection pump, how about injecting it into the intake manifold (to cool the intake air and add extra energy to the combustion)? It's a tuning modification, of course. There are probably quite a few people who would pay you a lot of money for that.

Greetings.

Eike.

I see another problem.

It's definitely not pure methanol, but rather a mixture of ethanol, methanol, and water.

The model engines start exhibiting erratic behavior even with as little as 2-3% water content.

You can't remove it through distillation.

Hi,
If the methanol is not pure enough for chemical purposes or as a fuel, then incineration is likely the best solution. Very few emissions are produced.

@ eike:

It's approximately 350 liters per year.
The alcohol content is approximately 65%.
You don't have to dispose of it. It can be poured into the drain under customs supervision or rendered unusable (making it unfit for consumption).
Ethanol is mainly used for perfumes and pharmaceuticals.
My idea was simply that there might be a way to achieve a little more power, no matter what. That would be a beneficial tuning measure for me. But only if the engine can handle it. That's why I'm asking someone who knows about it.
What exactly do you mean by 'fuel injection into the intake manifold'?
Who knows more about this?
First, it doesn't matter whether it's a diesel or gasoline engine.

Well, a model airplane pilot won't take that stuff from you...

'These small engines are delicate and quite expensive on their own. The value of the entire model, including the engine, easily exceeds the cost of a fuel injection pump.'

The engine's performance exceeds 150 horsepower, and specifically, helicopter engines rely on fuel of consistently high quality. This is something that model builders cannot easily accommodate.

Can't we use this material to burn it again in the boiler?


Injecting fuel into the intake manifold, I think, is less than ideal. Either the fuel will vaporize prematurely, or it will ignite (due to high octane fuel and a large ignition delay!) quite abruptly in the cylinder, leading to knocking... (diesel engines require a smaller ignition delay).

btw: mc_giver
'We also have a V12 engine running as a generator here, and it's been operating on heating oil for 18 years. However, that engine was specifically designed for heating oil operation... As I mentioned, the system can be configured for that purpose. It's sometimes done, either partially or on request, in off-highway applications, but not in automobiles.'


CU Gremlin.