Biodiesel: Answers from the Top Experts

Hey fellow mechanics,

'Some time ago, I inquired with the Federal Ministry of Consumer Protection about the preliminary standard for biodiesel and the refusal to grant approvals for new Volkswagen diesel vehicles.'
Here is the statement:


The German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action (BMWK) has asked the Renewable Resources Agency (FNR) to respond to your inquiry mentioned above.
In your letter dated [date of original letter], supplemented by your email of July 16, 2003, you requested our opinion on the following points:
1. Approval of new diesel engines (Euro IV or V) for operation with biodiesel.
2. Current status of biodiesel standardization.

Regarding point 1: The withdrawal of approval for new diesel engines from Volkswagen AG is related to the Euro IV emission standard, which came into effect in 2005.
While technically feasible for some time, the use of biodiesel in current diesel engines will likely face limitations in the future. The Euro IV standard presents a significant challenge: the emission limits prescribed by this standard are very difficult to meet with biodiesel. In particular, the increased nitrogen oxide emissions compared to conventional diesel fuel pose problems. Currently, biodiesel is used as a substitute fuel and is employed in engines whose control systems are designed for fossil diesel. While the biofuel can be used without issues, it does not burn optimally from an environmental perspective. The engine electronics have not yet been adjusted to the altered physical properties of this biofuel.
Per Kraftstofferkennung wollen die Bundesforschungsanstalt für Landwirtschaft (FAL) und die Volkswagen AG die Verbrennung von Biodiesel schadstoffärmer machen. Sie haben einen Sensor entwickelt, der nicht nur erkennt ob Bio- oder fossiler Diesel, sondern zugleich dafür sorgt, dass der Motor sich anpasst und so umweltschonend arbeitet wie möglich. Das Projekt wird vom BMVEL unterstützt. Eine Entscheidung seitens der Motorenhersteller über den Einsatz des Biodieselsensors liegt z. Z. not yet decided.

Regarding point 2: Currently, there is no valid standard for biodiesel. Since the introduction of a preliminary standard, Germany has had the E DIN 51606 since 1997, which defines the properties of biodiesel. It currently holds the status of a draft standard. It is expected that this existing standard will be replaced by the European harmonized standard DIN EN 14214, likely starting in 2004. This new standard will be stricter in some parameters than the current one. The inclusion of biodiesel in the 10th Federal Immission Control Act ('Regulation on the Quality and Labeling of Fuels') is planned, which would create legal conditions similar to those for fossil diesel. However, there are still many detailed questions that need to be resolved. These will be addressed once biodiesel is included in the 10th Federal Immission Control Act.


Let's just wait and see what happens next year. However, I find it alarming how long these things take. I also had to wait almost a quarter of a year for an answer to my questions.

Greetings.

Eike.

eike wrote:

The withdrawn approval for new diesel engines from Volkswagen AG is related to the Euro IV emission standard, which came into effect in 2005.

... oh, what? Let me just say something silly here... ... I think this is BIO? ... Why does it suddenly not work anymore? Biodiesel is supposed to be so verschandeln and environmentally friendly? Is that not the case?

Quote:

... The Euro IV standard proves to be a significant challenge: the emission limits prescribed by it are very difficult to meet with biodiesel. In particular, the increased nitrogen oxide emissions compared to conventional diesel fuel pose problems. "... While the biofuel can be used without any problems, it does not burn optimally from an environmental perspective."

... also eine Ofizielle Aussage das BD Schrott ist? That's great! / Awesome! / Fantastic!

Quote:

Let's just wait and see what happens next year. However, I find it alarming how long these things take. I also had to wait almost a quarter of a year for an answer to my questions.

Long time no see!

The revised warranty law is not addressed at all. Since there is no regulation for BD (presumably a product or company), a manufacturer who grants approval for it now automatically faces the problem.
Previously, the statement "fuel not compliant with standards" was sufficient, and the customer was considered at fault. However, now the manufacturer must prove compliance, rather than the customer (as was previously the case).

The withdrawn approval for new diesel engines from Volkswagen AG is related to the Euro IV emission standard, which came into effect in 2005.

... oh, what? Let me be silly for a moment... ... I think this is BIO? ... Why does it suddenly not work anymore? Biodiesel is supposed to be so verschandeln and environmentally friendly? Is that not the case?


No. The reasons are stated above. Officially, this has been denied for a long time, but unofficially, it has been known for quite some time.

Best regards, WarLord.

WarLord wrote:

No. The reasons are listed above. Officially, it has been denied for a long time, but unofficially, it has been known for a long time.

I understand that now; that's why I asked a provocative question in the first place.

I understand that now; that's why I asked a provocative question in the first place.

I understand that too. I just wanted to reiterate it with the perspectives mentioned.

Best regards, WarLord.

News from the 8:00 PM Tagesschau (news program):

Tax exemption for biofuels?

According to a report by 'Bild am Sonntag' at the beginning of 2004, biofuels are expected to be exempt from taxes. The newspaper cites coalition politicians as its source. Experts reportedly expect that the price of diesel could decrease by 16 cents per liter due to a possible addition of biofuel.

Greetings, Marcus.

Tax exemption for biofuels?

According to a report by 'Bild am Sonntag' at the beginning of 2004, biofuels were supposed to be exempt from taxes. The newspaper cites coalition politicians as its source. Experts expect, according to the newspaper, that the price of diesel could decrease by 16 cents per liter due to a possible addition of biofuel.
Hello,
I cannot understand that. To my knowledge, only petroleum products are subject to mineral oil tax. Biodiesel, etc., are already exempt from mineral oil tax – or am I mistaken?!
Regards,
Max.

Hello,
I cannot understand that. To my knowledge, only mineral oil products are subject to the mineral oil tax. Biodiesel, etc., are already exempt from the mineral oil tax today - or is that not the case?

Hello.

Some politicians are planning to mandate the addition of biodiesel to conventional diesel fuel because pure biodiesel has not gained widespread acceptance. Now, according to the report I read, they apparently want to exempt or subsidize these 'blends' from taxes, just like pure biodiesel.

'Shoddy environmental arguments are being put forward, but behind biodiesel lie the interests of agriculture and politicians who have made rapeseed cultivation attractive to farmers through subsidies. It is well known that the production of conventional rapeseed biodiesel generates more environmental pollution (CO2) than is saved through its use as fuel, but this plays no role in these efforts, just like the problems that biodiesel poses for modern and efficient engines.'

I hope this 'brilliant idea' disappears as quickly as the one to increase taxes on diesel fuel for vehicles during the summer.

It's terrible how much public criticism we diesel drivers are facing lately. If I had a gasoline car with the same performance as my diesel, I would be burning at least one-third more fossil fuel.

Instead of mandating the use of intelligent, additive-free particulate filters by law to combat soot emissions, or introducing truly environmentally friendly and engine-compatible biodiesel (SunFuel/Synfuel), we are being forced to use rapeseed oil derivatives.

What do they actually want? Are we supposed to drive an old 200D because it handles biodiesel so well, or should we switch to a large gasoline engine that consumes 15 liters per 100 kilometers?

Unrealistic and technology-hostile politics .

Greetings, Marcus.

Eike wrote:

and is used as such in engines whose management systems are optimized for fossil diesel fuel. While the biofuel can be easily used, it does not burn optimally from an ecological point of view. The engine electronics have not yet been adjusted to the altered physical properties of the biofuel.

Hello,

I only filled my D4 AXR with biodiesel once. The result was that the engine took a long time to start, vibrated violently enough to make me worried about the common rail injectors, and emitted a huge cloud of white smoke. I will never do that to it again.

I can only support the withdrawal of approval for VW/Audi vehicles compliant with the EU4 standard, due to their failure to adapt to biodiesel requirements.

Greetings, Marcus.

Here is the complete report from today's BAMS:


All biofuels are exempt from tax.
Diesel prices could soon be as low as 70 cents per liter.
By BERNHARD KELLNER

Could 7.6 million diesel car drivers in Germany soon be able to refuel at significantly lower prices?
The red-green coalition intends to completely exempt all biofuels from taxes starting January 1st. The petroleum industry wants to blend biofuels with conventional diesel. BP CEO Wilhelm Bonse-Geuking told BamS: 'Our refineries are ready. We will promote the development of biofuels.'

Experts predict that this could lead to a decrease in the price of diesel from 86 cents per liter by as much as 16 cents. Hermann Scheer, a member of the German parliament (SPD) and recipient of the Alternative Nobel Prize, confirms: 'Prices below 70 cents per liter at gas stations are quite possible.'

Biofuels are actually quite old technology – the first Ford automobiles were even powered by bioethanol. Fuel is produced from plants or agricultural waste such as straw, wood, or grass through combustion or fermentation. New processes are now making this technology suitable for the mass market. Germany is considered a global leader in this field. Biofuel can either be mixed with conventional mineral oil or used in its pure form.

The innovation is hidden within the fine print of the tax reform law, which the coalition government is currently debating in the Bundestag. Matthias Berninger (Green Party), State Secretary at the Ministry of Agriculture: 'This tax reduction marks the beginning of massive investments. Companies have already planned to invest more than 300 million euros in this new technology this year, because they were hoping for a tax exemption. Now, that money will be flowing.'

Many farmers have already recognized biofuels as a lucrative market with promising future prospects. 'The farmer is becoming an energy manager,' says Gerd Sonnleitner, President of the German Farmers' Association, enthusiastically. 'Through the cultivation of biofuels, we are gaining completely new sales opportunities.'

The final hurdle is that the tax exemption for biofuels still needs to be approved by the Finance Committee of the German Bundestag next Wednesday. State Secretary Berninger believes this is a formality: 'This will now pass easily,' he announces, especially since he has the support of the CDU/CSU parties.

Because the traditionally farmer-friendly CDU party fully supports the proposal put forward by the SPD and Green parties.

Norbert Schindler, a member of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and Vice President of the German Farmers' Association, will happily vote in favor of the government's proposal in the Finance Committee: 'We are fully supportive of this.'


Greetings, Marcus.

Quote:

Could 7.6 million diesel car drivers in Germany soon be able to refuel at significantly lower prices? "Prices below 70 cents per liter at the gas station are definitely possible."

Hi,

That's quite something: As fuel injection systems become increasingly sophisticated and less tolerant of deviations from the standard in diesel fuel, there's now a price war being waged for "hardware-killing biodiesel."

The consequences are likely to be clear:

Here's the translation:

"Those few remaining older diesel vehicles that are already subject to punitive taxes ("environmental penalty") can probably obtain this fuel tax-free and thus drive them more cheaply."

The newer the injection technology in the car, the more expensive the damages that will inevitably occur sooner or later.
So, what does the thrifty and environmentally conscious modern TDI driver do? He still risks using cheap fuel, potentially saving 200 euros until the engine fails – but then pays 300 euros in VAT alone for the repair .
And from then on, he continued to use the expensive Dino diesel fuel...

The expected large-scale biodiesel market will likely encourage many unscrupulous individuals to try and profit from it, which further increases the risk of fraud (see point 2).

4. The petroleum lobby will likely sue against the exemption of organic products from taxes, and they will probably ultimately be right, so that organic products will once again be taxed – and what remains in the end? A short period of booming business for workshops specializing in repairing damage caused by biofuels, resulting in a significant loss of tax revenue for the state – and many diesel drivers who will have to pay for it: The goal is achieved .

ulf wrote:

... Here's the translation: "Those few remaining older diesel vehicles that are already subject to punitive taxes ("environmental sinners") can probably obtain this fuel tax-free and drive them more cheaply." ...

... but they can mostly drive electric vehicles for that ... we get gas at MC Doof, and you? }

Hello everyone,

Okay, let's not overreact here. I myself am a victim of the 'Dieselgate' scandal, but only because I drove my old A4 for 25,000 kilometers with the modified engine.

An additive of 5%, as is the case in France, likely wouldn't be noticeable by the engines.
It has been working perfectly there for years. The car manufacturers have also stated that they would accept a mixture containing up to 10%.
(As Paracelsus said: 'The dose makes the poison.')

That tax money (specifically mineral oil tax) is being diverted to farmers who are supposedly suffering, especially at a time when the coffers are already more than empty, is something else entirely.
The fact that the SPD, Greens, CDU, and CSU were all in agreement on this is a prime example of successful lobbying, and it highlights the kind of political wrongdoing that has brought Germany to where we are today. We are no longer facing a pile of rubble; we *are* the pile of rubble.

Ich glaube nicht dass es zu einer Verbilligung des Diesels kommt, weil ja PÖL ( Pflanzenöl) nicht unbegrenzt verfügbar ist.. Steigt der Verbrauch nur geringfügig über die Produktion, steigen die Preise rapide, bis die dann sinkende Nachfrage den Preis wieder drückt. ( sog. Markteconomics).

My first 'experiments' with ALDI sausages cost 60 pfennigs each; today they cost 70 cents!

It would only make ecological sense if farmers were required to use rapeseed methyl ester (RME) or other vegetable oils for production, but definitely not subsidized diesel.
However, that is not mentioned.

This week, I filled up with RME fuel for the first time in this car, because I noticed that my old car's fuel consumption increased rapidly.

Fuel consumption with diesel: 7.2-7.6 liters. Currently, with 50% biodiesel (RME): 8.2 liters!!!!
RME has 10% less energy content, which explains the 5% increase in fuel consumption when it makes up 50% of the blend. Currently, the actual increase in fuel consumption, as indicated by the onboard computer, is over 10%.
Let's see what the fuel bill says; perhaps higher leakage rates are causing a higher reading.

Based on my driving experience, I can say that the engine runs much more smoothly and quietly. In fact, I even prefer the diesel version.

Hi there,

Experiences with biodiesel likely vary greatly. I've been using it for quite some time (in 2 cars, and now over 250,000 kilometers) without any problems.
It seems that only those who previously contaminated their fuel system with conventional diesel are experiencing difficulties. The biodiesel then mobilizes this residue, leading to the problems.
Leaving aside the problems with the supposedly not-so-good environmental footprint, and if a mixture is introduced into regular diesel, I believe it has further advantages:
It creates/secures jobs in the cultivation of raw materials and their processing.
Approximately 20% of the fuel price currently disappears abroad, ending up in the coffers of multinational oil companies. A portion of this money will now remain within the country and can be reinvested here.
Even if the addition of these components isn't yet a game-changer, it creates a drive for further optimization. This will be the only way to permanently solve our CO2 problem.
4. Yes, there are environmental problems here due to the cultivation of rapeseed and other oilseeds. Have you compared this to how the environment is being damaged in areas where oil is extracted? Even with what seems like verschandeln extraction in the North Sea, a closer look reveals vast dead zones around the oil platforms. What about Russia, Africa, and the Middle East then? Is it a case of 'out of sight, out of mind,' or simply 'as long as it's cheap'?
5. If biodiesel is legally mandated to be mixed with diesel at a rate of 10%, it is unlikely that any manufacturer will be able to refuse warranty claims based on the fuel not meeting standards.

There are certainly many more arguments that could be listed here.

I would like to add one thing at this point: many of you complain about biodiesel and the damage it supposedly causes. To my previous questions about what specific damages it causes, I have received no or very few useful answers. Isn't that also a form of lobbying being practiced here?

Greetings.

Eike.

Please check here under 'Garth'.

Car won't start - RME - Biodiesel.

I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a translation without the actual text to be translated. The provided link only points to a forum post ID. Please provide the content of the German text you want me to translate into English.


The only ones who know nothing about problems are Audi.

Hey @Quizmaster:

How about this question: Where is the Valley of the Ignorant since the fall of the Berlin Wall?

Answer: INGOLSTADT.

@garth.brooks

Okay, I understand.

@everyone

Here we go again with another subsidy disaster at the expense of taxpayers. First and foremost, 100% biodiesel should be mandated for all agricultural machinery (tractors, combine harvesters, etc.), and definitely not the largely tax-free "Dinol" diesel that is currently allowed. If anything remains from the production volume, farmers can then sell it at their actual costs.

My assessment is that it will become a subsidized "industry" in the same way as wind power.

Before I add it to the diesel and risk potential damage to newer PD (pump-injector) and common rail systems, it would be much simpler to mix it with heating oil. The savings on petroleum imports would be the same, and the technical risk would be much lower.

Or have I misunderstood something?

Best regards,
Christian.