Winterreifen optimal ausnutzen? | Posts 16+

It would also be possible to use the media to inform people about the start and end dates of the winter tire requirement. Even with fixed timeframes, this is done in countries like Poland regarding the mandatory use of headlights.

By the way, the reference to areas with less snowfall isn't unreasonable. In my area, snowfall has been limited for years, and furthermore, someone living in a city could certainly do without winter tires if they can forgo using their car altogether during heavy snowfalls and instead rely on public transportation. This group has also generally been well-served by all-season tires so far.

I will continue to use my summer tires as long as the weather permits. So far, they have always performed better than my winter tires on wet roads. Unless I am legally required to change them earlier...

Hutfahrer wrote:

By the way, the reference to areas with little snow is not unreasonable.

Of course, but "area with little snow" is a similarly vague term as the previously required "suitable tires" or Klebi's "snow and ice on the roads" (see also my last post):
Sollen ein paar verirrte Pulverschneeflocken, die mangels Masse noch gar nicht zu gefährlicher Glätte führen können, schon eine WR-Pflicht begründen? Was ist auf geräumten Straßen, wo aber noch Schnee an den Rändern liegt und SR keinen Sicherheitsnachteil gegenüber WR darstellen? Usw. uswBitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest.

If a Klipp&Klar regulation is to be implemented that cannot be overturned by the next highest court on the grounds of the principle of specificity, then, in my opinion, there is no way around a calendar-based approach, possibly with local variations depending on the federal states or districts (e.g., based on snowfall levels).
While people who, for example, commute between the Allgäu region and Baden-Württemberg or Bavaria and might cross the border daily, thus fluctuating between areas where a work permit is not yet required and those where it is, would probably scratch their heads, at least everyone would know what is expected of them, which is currently the most important thing.

Hello,

Is there a minimum tread depth that new winter tires must have?
I've added two sentences.

Blizzak LM30: 9mm.
BFGoodrich gForce: 8mm.

That somewhat puts the issue of wear and tear into perspective in the test reviews.

I see the mandatory winter tire requirement merely as a measure to stimulate the economy. It would be more sensible if lawmakers encouraged and promoted the personal responsibility of drivers instead of constantly generating further costs and tax revenue with flimsy justifications.

Best regards, Rainer.

I see the mandatory use of winter tires merely as a measure to stimulate the economy.

'Except for the second set of rims, I don't think winter tires cause much expense.'

It would be more sensible if the legislator demanded and encouraged the personal responsibility of vehicle drivers.

Using the same logic, one could abolish the Road Traffic Act and the Vehicle Registration Regulations. However, the fact is that without compulsion and sanctions, a great deal of nonsense would happen.

Basically, I don't really care if someone driving on summer tires in snowy conditions crashes and dies. However, it's a different matter when innocent people lose their lives as a result.


Regards,
t.klebi

Hello,

t.klebi wrote:

Except for the second set of rims, I think winter tires hardly cause any costs.

whether they cause little or significant costs, you or the legislator should not determine; each individual should be allowed to decide this for themselves.

Unfortunately, the legislator – and by that, I don't mean a government legitimized by the people – already determines whether it is significant or not if my pension money is used for bank bailouts, just as it determines whether my tax money is being spent wisely on projects like Stuttgart 21, integration courses, or many other things. And there is a Mr. Trittin who, according to his own statement, rejoices when Germany disappears a little more each day and a left-green dictatorship infantilizes citizens:

Quote:

"Germany is disappearing more and more every day, and I think that's just great!"

People with your mindset will become an endangered species in the coming years because they haven't understood the signs of the times. This constant moralizing by "good people" in Germany is simply unbearable.

Quote:

Basically, I don't really care if someone drives their car with summer tires on a road covered in ice and crashes.

However, it's different when innocent people lose their lives as a result.
That's correct; therefore, an expert is also responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Only by imposing prohibitions will it be impossible to prevent reckless individuals from killing other people. Just as well, if we were to prohibit crimes, then there would be no more of them.

It's great that they're now saying, "Buy winter tires, everyone!", no matter if global warming brings 20°C in December... oops, I forgot, those don't actually exist; it was just another stimulus measure.

Best regards, Rainer.

Rainer, crimes are already prohibited today...

Well, in my opinion, the lobbying efforts of the tire industry, testing organizations, and the automotive sector have paid off regarding the mandatory use of winter tires.

Hutfahrer wrote:

Rainer, crimes are already prohibited today...

Yep, there still will be some, just like there will be people with unsuitable equipment and driving styles despite the mandatory winter tire requirement from date x to date y.
The main thing is to squeeze more money out of the "rest" and add another ridiculous "regulation."

To return to Ulf's initial question: Winter tires are very good for driving in winter conditions, and summer tires are simply perfect for the summer. These aren't marketing slogans, but facts. Tires designed for all-season use can only perform each function adequately, and summer/winter tires perform accordingly worse in the respective other season.

A tire doesn't just affect braking distances and cornering speeds; it also influences other aspects such as noise levels, rolling resistance, ride comfort, and steering precision. This is where summer tires have an advantage during the appropriate season.

Es wurde oben schon geschrieben, dass der Gummi im Verhältnis zur Leistung des Reifens nur sehr wenig Geld kostet und so würde ich es auch an Deiner Stelle sehen. Du investierst viel Geld und auch Zeit in Deine Fahrzeuge und möchtest nun 10 oder 20 Euro sparen, indem Du zur Jahreszeit inkompatible Reifen fährst. Das It's nonsense.

Throw away the old tire and put on some new rubber.

EDIT: In the original post, I read "4 mm." To prolong the life of your (existing?) summer tires, you could start using the winter tires now and keep them on for a significantly longer period in the spring. Perhaps not all the way into the peak of summer, but definitely throughout the spring.

Uwe wrote:

A tire not only affects braking distances and cornering speeds. It also influences other aspects such as noise levels, rolling resistance, ride comfort, and steering precision. This is where summer tires have an advantage during the appropriate season.

The question is, how significant is this advantage?
When the Polo was still "mine," a few years ago, I continued to use the first set of winter tires after their last winter season, driving them through the summer to spare the summer tires from seasonal wear. Despite having 160 horsepower, frequent overtaking maneuvers on country roads, and (compared to typical family car driving) always quite brisk cornering speeds, I never felt that the winter tires made me feel less comfortable or unsafe compared to the summer tires.

Quote:

You invest a lot of money and time in your vehicles, and now you want to save 10 or 20 euros by driving tires that are not suitable for the season. That doesn't make sense.

My calculation: A set of summer tires with installation costs around 400€ and lasts about 6 years -> approximately 66€ per season in tire costs, which we can save by using all-season tires until they wear out. Instead, my wife and I can go out to eat properly.

Hutfahrer wrote:

EDIT: In the original post, I read 4 mm. To spare the (existing?) summer tires, you could start using the winter tires now and keep them on for a significantly longer period in the spring. Perhaps not necessarily until the height of summer, but definitely throughout the spring.

Well, the summer tires are just about worn out: 2-3 mm of tread remaining in the middle, and the front tires have been worn down to zero in places on the inner sides (which is why I've adjusted the toe angle on the Polo).

If a minimum tread depth of 4 mm were to be legally mandated for winter tires, following the Austrian example, then it is likely that these winter tires would not last for the entire winter of 2011/2012.
Then we would further reduce the water level in the reservoir next summer; new water rights would be needed in the fall of 2011.


As I see it, the following will happen:

"If it's time for SR again in the spring of 2011, there won't be a new Road Traffic Regulations yet -> therefore, we plan to have one last "almost flatland" season with WR in 2011/2012, and we will purchase new (because it's the right thing to do) SR tires for the Polo early in 2011."

Shortly after, the legal minimum tread depth of 4mm for winter tires comes into effect, and we also have to buy new winter tires in the same year because the old ones would no longer have a full 4mm of tread left at the end of the 2011/2012 winter season.

The cost of having the tires mounted twice on the summer rims (to use up the old winter tires in the summer of 2012 and to put the new summer tires back on in the summer of 2013) exceeds the potential savings from reduced wear on the new summer tires.
Therefore, we are forced to discard well-maintained tires with approximately 4mm of remaining tread depth. While it doesn't ruin us financially, I am still annoyed that the unpredictability of politics is costing us about €66 again (see above).

I would also like to have had such thoughts sometime...

My tire supplier only offers all-weather tires or winter tires.
And all of this, apparently, because of a tiny typo on the vehicle registration document. Or someone please explain to me why winter tires are required for a car with a top speed of 184 km/h...
So, I managed to get a special permit for H-rated tires. Now, summer tires are also available.

Ulf, what's the problem with simply leaving the winter tires and rims on in the spring and using them up if necessary? The draft document mentioned a tread depth of 4 mm and (!), a tire age of no more than 5 years. Some testing organizations are already refusing to issue vehicle inspections for cars with tires that are older than 6 (!) years. And this is done without any legal basis!

I would just wait and see how things develop. Experiences with previous legislative changes or resolutions have shown that they often bring massive surprises for those affected. I wouldn't buy anything new until I am absolutely sure that my plans won't conflict with any decisions that could end up costing me a fortune later on. Just like all-season tires will probably no longer meet the definition of winter tires in the future, this could also happen with minimum tread depth and tire age requirements. And if I can't economically use my winter tires in the future, then I will continue to use them in the summer! Alternatively, many Eastern European countries will likely be happy about a large influx of winter tires with exactly 4 mm of remaining tread, which are officially exported for recycling but will inevitably be driven until they are completely worn out. The lobbying efforts have certainly paid off!


OT: It seems that driving a car is becoming increasingly expensive. I know several people in my neighborhood who can no longer afford to own a car. This is mainly because, here in the east, many industries are paying extremely low wages or completely transforming entire professions into "low-wage employment" positions.

The finance minister is also calling for the swift transition of vehicle taxes to a system based on CO2 emissions. The responsibility already lies with the federal government, and the agencies of the Federal Ministry of Finance could decentralize the calculation process, including issuing notices, with just a few employees and begin operations within less than 6 weeks. The main customs offices that are currently collecting these taxes would then handle it for their respective regions. And those are just some of the things that are no longer secret...

Hutfahrer wrote:

Ulf, what's wrong with simply leaving the winter tires and rims on in the spring and potentially using them up? The draft mentioned 4 mm and (!) a tire age of no more than 5 years . ...

Ah yes, thank you for pointing out that aspect!
That would certainly be more fitting for the times, to forcibly collect taxes from drivers every 5 years to cover a set of new all-weather tires.
Here's the translation:

"And of course, the state-approved WR (whatever 'WR' refers to) are offered at a correspondingly high price, because one cannot avoid these carefully selected types as a law-abiding citizen and sponsor of the state treasury ."

You can be quite tense waiting for the first markings and special adhesive sets to appear online, which will be used to counterfeit cheap tires (similar to those green, nonsensical stickers).

Quote:

I wouldn't buy anything new until I'm absolutely sure that my plans won't conflict with any regulations that could end up costing me a fortune later on.

That makes sense. But then it will probably happen that the new law will be introduced just before the annual rush for solar inverters, and manufacturers of compliant solar inverters will not only be allowed to add a "state-approved" surcharge, but also make a killing from high demand.

Sure, that objection is valid! But if you've already decided to use the winter tires for this winter, then go through with it! Forget about the summer rims in the spring, drive the winter tires as long as it makes sense and is feasible! And then get replacements only when necessary! With goods from this year, you may be missing out on a possible operating year - regardless of whether you can use the tires for 5 or 6 years. And in 2011, when buying new tires, you must clearly state that you will not accept leftover stock from the production year 2010. At least not at the regular price!

It's possible that a secondary market will also develop: Slightly older winter tires, with a reduced lifespan, are offered at lower prices, and people buy them, generally foregoing summer tires altogether. A friend of mine in Vienna uses this exact strategy; both of his cars (an Opel Astra from 2010 and a Hyundai Getz from 2009) exclusively use winter tires. This year, the Astra received inexpensive tires produced in 2009. The brand-new summer tires that were purchased with them were removed and sold at a good price. The Getz, which was originally purchased as a winter special edition (with heated seats, a standing heater, and fog lights), already came equipped with winter tires. These were also from 2008 production, which is common for "winter special editions." This way, you can still get rid of the tires from previous years' production, and customers don't ask about it.

Incidentally, there is also no legal basis in Austria for the "6-year rule," according to which vehicles with older tires are denied a vehicle inspection certificate. And in Austria, as a vehicle owner, you have even fewer possibilities to appeal arbitrary decisions made by the inspectors. They are, after all, "technical officials" and they never make mistakes...

Hutfahrer wrote:

Forget about the summer rims in the spring...

We don't have that problem because we use the same steel rims for both summer and winter.

Quote:

Use the winter gear for as long as it makes sense and is feasible. Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. It's possible that a secondary market will then develop: Slightly older winter tires, with a reduced lifespan, are available at a lower price, and people might buy these instead of using summer tires altogether. A friend of mine in Vienna does exactly this; both of his cars (an Opel Astra from 2010 and a Hyundai Getz from 2009) exclusively use winter tires.

Wow, that sounds incredibly dangerous, according to the tire industry... and many drivers confirm this based on their own experiences (but we'll probably still take the risk).

Even though some forum members have already raised a cautionary finger, being aware of the shortcomings is at least a reliable companion. I can live with many deficiencies in my vehicles if I know about them and understand how they affect performance. In such situations, one simply avoids those problems.

For example, with my Saxo VTS "fun car," I know that the rear axle is very light and that on curves taken at too high a speed, especially on wet or slippery surfaces, it will veer off course without much warning. The margin for error is very small and comes late – for an inexperienced driver, combined with a startled reaction, it's a guaranteed loss of control!

The person from Vienna mentioned the same arguments: For two to a maximum of three months per year, you have suboptimal tires. These are the peak summer months when even slightly faster cornering causes winter tires to start "weeping" softly. This is easily manageable and is announced early on. Nevertheless, driving and braking are possible without risk. The slightly higher wear doesn't pose a problem in the long run, because if used exclusively in winter, winter tires will not reach the wear limit of 4 mm within 6 years. If they are used year-round, they will be worn out after about 4 years, meaning you could only drive them for at most one more summer season. This was also true for the Peugeot 407 SW that was driven before the Astra. In addition, even summer tires were not worn down to the wear limit within 6 years and were typically disposed of with an average thickness of 4.5 - 5.5 mm. So, they are exported to Africa...