leicht OT: Rückrufaktion wegen Relais 109 | Posts 16+

kapernaum wrote:

...the threshold where companies are actively involved seems, unfortunately, to be very high in practice...

It is important to clearly distinguish between a recall and a voluntary modification.

The manufacturer has absolutely nothing to do with a recall. In Germany, the decision to initiate a recall lies with a regulatory authority, specifically the KBA (Federal Motor Transport Authority).

The manufacturer has the option to initiate a recall, but they will likely postpone it for financial reasons.

If you consider relay 109 to be a potential safety hazard, do not contact the vehicle manufacturer directly, but rather the KBA (German Federal Motor Transport Authority). They will investigate the cause and question the car manufacturer (and its supplier). VW will then have to provide failure statistics and comment on the installation of a new component from a supplier, which has a higher level of functional safety than the old one. The KBA will then estimate how many failures are still to be expected, taking into account age-related wear and tear (a relay is a wear item!). Cars with high mileage will therefore likely be excluded from the assessment. After that, the potential hazard (the number of defects) should be so small that a recall will not be initiated.

The voluntary recall campaign can be carried out as part of an inspection. However, this incurs costs. Therefore, we will wait to see if the KBA (German Federal Motor Transport Authority) initiates a recall.
Every manufacturer will do it that way.

It belongs to the Relais 109 group of affected vehicles. Fortunately, it was still under warranty, but the dealership took a whopping 14 days to diagnose the problem.

First, the combination instrument was replaced (suspected immobilizer issue), then the engine control unit was replaced, and finally, they figured it out and were able to replace the 109 unit.

'In our circle of acquaintances, we have also seen a growing number of cases of '109' errors.'

Fortunately, it never stopped working during the ride, but it simply wouldn't start in the mornings.

Although I haven't experienced any R 109 damage yet, with almost 80,000 km on the odometer, perhaps this issue, or rather, this thread from Auto Bild, could be relevant. An article from them, and VW's response, would be important. See LMM

dieselkugel wrote:

An article from them, and VW remains steadfast. See LMM

Just like with the LMM .... Bla Bla Bla and nothing more.... the LMM still costs nearly 300 euros at VW.
A colleague just received a response from VW regarding their LMM (lambda sensor) warranty claim, and they were told that 0.00% would be covered. The car is only 75,000 km (approximately 47,000 miles) and 2.5 years old. Forget about it!

Then the dealership hasn't updated the new prices in their system yet.

They wanted to install a new LMM for me, even though the existing one isn't broken. A colleague of mine got his replaced for free, but he would have only had to pay 75 euros otherwise.

dieselkugel wrote:

Then, the people at the car dealership haven't updated the new prices on their system yet.

The price information comes from VZ and not from an AH.
The Bild article had no effect whatsoever.

An article from them, and VW remains steadfast. See LMM

Just like with the LMM .... Bla Bla Bla and nothing behind it.... the LMM still costs nearly 300 Euros at VW.
A work colleague just received their LMM goodwill approval from VW yesterday, and 0.00% is being covered. The car is only 75,000 km and 2.5 years old. Forget it!

hi bertil,

You know that I had/have the same problem. I went to a mechanic and inquired about the price without obligation. The answer was 300 euros. I asked three times, and suddenly the price was 75 euros . Is that a trick? I mean, yes! Most TDI drivers don't know about this, and it's a good way to make money. Regarding the goodwill regulation: it's certainly good for people with less than 100,000 km on vehicles less than 3 years old. Unfortunately, the goodwill regulation didn't benefit me. Because I exceeded 100,000 km on January 1, 2004, the goodwill is only 50%. That doesn't sound bad, but: they add half an hour of labor to the cost. And I don't need to tell you how much that half an hour costs. You're much cheaper if you buy a new one and install it yourself in 2 minutes. VW is and remains a lousy company.

That's correct, and it will be loaded onto the diskette there.

joergs wrote:

...I inquired about the price informally. The answer was 300 euros. I asked three times, and the price had already dropped to 75 euros.

Is this intentional? ..}

That's why my colleague also contacted the relevant authority directly. Unfortunately, they provided a negative response. I didn't get involved further in the process because everything seemed strange to me.

I wouldn't give up, because with the mileage, a higher goodwill allowance should be possible than what you're being offered.

@bertil

The master held a small piece of paper under someone's nose, and it said:
- Up to 36 months or 100,000 km: 100% warranty.
- Over 100,000 km, or up to 48 months: 50% goodwill allowance.

and all of this without any maintenance records.

I also have a similar letter from the association with 0% leniency. However, it's from December 2003. } Maybe your colleague had a similar situation! } If not, then it's time to contact the newspaper again! } They supposedly cover everything! }

Hi everyone,

According to Autobild, there's a goodwill gesture available from the dealership.

Up to 36 months / 100,000 km, 100% coverage.
Up to 48 months or 100,000 km (subject to terms and conditions).

For everyone who's annoyed by this:
In about 6-8 weeks, AT-LMM will be available, and it's supposed to be at least 40% cheaper (I've heard rumors of up to 70% depending on the type).

Otherwise, at Bosch (the manufacturer of most of these devices that fail), AT-MAF sensors are already partially available.

Greetings, HHRasputin.

P.S.
This regulation has only been in place since the end of December.

Hello everyone,

According to Autobild, there's a goodwill gesture available from the dealership.

Up to 36 months, up to 100,000 km (62,000 miles), 100%.
Up to 48 months or 100,000 km (subject to terms and conditions).

For everyone who's annoyed by this:
In about 6-8 weeks, AT-LMM will be available, and it's supposed to be at least 40% cheaper (I've heard rumors of up to 70% depending on the type).

Otherwise, at Bosch (the manufacturer of most of these devices that fail), AT-MAF sensors are already partially available.

Greetings HHRasputin

not entirely correct!

50% financing for up to 48 months or over 100,000 km.

'In theory: 47 months and 1 million km, 50%. It would be interesting to see what happens then!'

And this has been officially the case since January 1, 2004.

Okay, now the question arises: what exactly is supposed to be exchanged regarding the LMM? Is it the housing? Or will it work differently than previously agreed: my broken one goes to Ulf, who in turn gives his to Bertil, who then gives it to Rainer!? It's my opinion that it's quite difficult to do an exchange for the LMM.

Well, I've wondered about that too, but that's just how it is.

They will probably reuse the casing and only replace the sensor, I don't think they will replace the heating element.

Greetings, HHRasputin.

Well, I've also wondered about that, but that's just the way it is.

They will probably reuse the casing and only replace the sensor, I don't think they will replace the heating element.

Greetings HHRasputin.

hello????!!!!

'Heating elements are probably not used in this device. The casing probably costs only 50 cents and would likely be destroyed during disassembly. I can't imagine that the sensor membrane would be replaced; that membrane should be the actual wear part!'

Okay, the sensor membrane is a 'heating resistor' (based on the principle of the mass airflow sensor).
mit Gehäuse meine ich die Luftführung, mit geber den eigentlichen Sensor mit elektronik (Hitzdraht - Heißfilm - oder mikromech. Heissfilm - ).
'It seems that if the LMM is now being sold at a much lower price, then giving it a new name is necessary. It's highly unlikely that making a repair cheaper would be comparable to the cost of producing a new one.'