Leistungsvergleich Bora 130PS - Passat 130PS | Posts 16+

With translation relationships ????

I only know the ones with letters, and even those have errors!

m;

I can't understand why you're all so critical of the 6-speed transmission. Perhaps you should consider this: If my diesel engine produces usable torque from 1900 rpm to 3000 rpm, then I should try to utilize all the advantages of the engine and stay within that range. Because the 6-speed transmission has a slightly closer gear ratio, it offers a real advantage even in city driving. It certainly takes some getting used to, but the transition was very easy for me. At least with VW, it doesn't matter whether it's a 5-speed or a 6-speed, because reverse gear is always in the same place (now also at the top left in Mercedes, and it's always been the same in BMW and Opel...).
And just between us, my car has a Getrag ERF transmission, and I haven't noticed any weather-related issues. Of course, it might be a bit harder to engage at -10 degrees Celsius, but that's a common problem with any 5-speed transmission because it's a lubrication issue. I also haven't experienced any jerky or imprecise shifting. So, I'm really happy with it. Also, the 5-speed transmission in my girlfriend's Golf (with an AGR engine) shifts just as well and subjectively has the same shift travel.
For me, the 6-speed gearbox is ideal on the highway because it has a much longer range than the 5-speed (I'm comparing the ASZ to the AGR engine here). At 2000 rpm, you're doing just under 120 km/h, which allows for economical and relaxed driving.

I agree. The 6-speed transmission in the ASZ is a blessing. It's precise, smooth, and always has at least two suitable gears available. Anyone who thinks they have to shift too much with it probably drove gasoline cars for too long – or haven't driven diesel cars for long enough.

The ERF, in its characteristics, no longer has much in common with the first experimental transmission used on the AJM test engine.

Certainly, it might be a bit harder to start at -10 degrees Celsius initially, but that's something that affects any 5-speed transmission, as it's a lubrication issue.

I highly doubt that.

by the way
The usable torque starts at approximately 1000 RPM in my engine. Above 1900 RPM, I've been in 5th gear for quite some time.
I've been thinking a lot about whether to get the 5-speed or 6-speed transmission for my A4. I've test-driven both versions. But... the fuel consumption was higher with the 6-speed, and so was the CO2 emissions. The weight was also different.
For a large-displacement naturally aspirated engine, I see 6 gears as perfectly reasonable, but for a diesel (turbo) engine, it's still just a gimmick or 'lifestyle' feature. It's a way to extract money from people.
Whether I'm driving in 5th gear on a 5-speed transmission or 6th gear on a 6-speed transmission at 1600 RPM doesn't really matter. The overall gear ratio was almost identical; the only difference is that I had to shift and clutch one more time.

You're probably right; I've also written something similar offhand. I personally turn mine on much earlier. But now you need to explain the increased consumption to me. According to my VW brochure from March 2002, for a Passat, it clearly states: 6-speed transmission, 5.9 liters; 5-speed transmission, 6.2 liters; average consumption. And you're right about the Golf; I just saw it on the VW website.

Average consumption / CO2 emissions.
Golf, 105 horsepower, 5-speed, fuel consumption: 5.0-5.3 liters per 100km, top speed: 135-143 km/h.
Golf, 105 horsepower, 6-speed, 5.2-5.5 liters fuel consumption, 140-149 grams of CO2 emissions.
That gives me something to think about... how can a Passat consume more fuel and a Golf consume less? That's strange, maybe it's due to the difference in torque?

Okay, it seems there are a lot of things to consider. Whether you're into that lifestyle or not, with the ASZ engine in the Golf, there was no choice – it came with a 6-speed manual transmission, whether you liked it or not. I'm happy with it; I don't mind the clutch, and it doesn't overwhelm me, because otherwise I'd be driving an automatic.

You're right, Julian.
The A4, whether with a 5-speed or 6-speed transmission, has the same officially registered top speed.
My sister's friend also had to choose between the 5-speed and 6-speed transmission for his A4 back then; he opted for the 5-speed after having test-driven both.
I also think it's unnecessary!

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'MFG' is an abbreviation for 'Mit freundlichen Grüßen,' which means 'Sincerely' or 'Best regards' in English.

Regarding the Golf, which you just downloaded from the VW website, you are correct.

Yep, the same goes for the A4.

However, the A4 with a 5-speed transmission has 285 Nm of torque, while the 6-speed transmission has 310 Nm. So, it seems like the 6-speed is more robust!

'Yes, the clutch and the input shaft of the gearbox are identical. The limitation is purely software-based.'

How does a standard consumption test typically work? Could it be that a 6-speed transmission might be at a disadvantage if the consumption test has to be performed in specific gears, and those gears have a shorter ratio in the 6-speed transmission compared to the 5-speed? This would mean a higher average engine speed, and consequently, higher fuel consumption in the 6-speed. (Although, in practice, this often turns out to be the opposite.)
The weight difference between the two transmissions isn't significant enough to have such a drastic effect.

So, if you want to determine the impact of the extra 20kg on fuel consumption, you can't simply say that a 5-speed consumes x1 liters and a 6-speed consumes x2 liters. Instead, both vehicles would have to have exactly the same features, because even something like a sunroof weighs more, or a front armrest adds 4kg to the weight. You can take this level of detail to the extreme, and therefore the discussion can only be based on personal preferences, since it seems proven that the 6-speed consumes more fuel at the same speed. I also believe there are problems with the standard test cycle, but that's beside the point. In my opinion, you can definitely have a good experience with a 6-speed, and I've never regretted buying the Golf. It only came with a 6-speed anyway.

6-speed for large-displacement gasoline engines? 5-speed for (turbo)diesel engines? Yes, of course!
A Jeep Cherokee with the old 4-liter engine has a torque curve that resembles a curved line, unlike a turbocharged diesel! I also have a similar diesel (1.4 TDI), and a 6-speed transmission would definitely make sense for it!

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

On the highway, the 6-speed transmission is ideal for me because it is significantly longer than the 5-speed (although I'm comparing the ASZ with the AGR here). At 2000 rpm, I'm doing just under 120 km/h, which allows for economical and relaxed driving.

120 km/h at 2000 RPM?
It seems like quite a high RPM. My 1Z engine has almost similar values, around 2200 RPM at 120 km/h.

6-speed gearbox for large-displacement gasoline engines? 5-speed gearbox for (turbo)diesel engines? Yes, of course!
A Jeep Cherokee with the old 4-liter engine has a torque curve that resembles a curved line, unlike a turbocharged diesel! I also have such a diesel (1.4 TDI), and a 6-speed transmission would definitely make sense for it!

Hmm, I actually meant 'large displacement' to refer to engines like the 4.2-liter V8 from the S4, not US-made, castrated truck engines with old-fashioned automotive technology... oops... I didn't express myself clearly.
A 6-speed gearbox is never geared lower than a 5-speed gearbox in the standard configuration. Why would it be? The engine still produces the same power. It's just that the jumps in RPM between the individual gears are smaller. But I doubt anyone understands that anymore. *derbösejulianmakes the 6-speed gearbox bad...oops!*

@ x world one

Well, that's the case with mine, but look at it this way: my engine's RPM is 10% lower than yours, and considering that my engine has a bit more standard power, it actually fits quite well together, especially if you consider that the 5th and 6th gears have roughly the same ratio.

Hi,

Quote:

A 6-speed gearbox is never geared lower than a 5-speed gearbox in a production vehicle.

Sure?

Okay, then take a look at the Ibiza 6L. 1000 RPM in 6th gear is a REAL 60 km/h - I don't know of any 5-speed TDI that has such a long 5th gear. They all have speeds between 44 and 47 km/h at 1000 RPM.

Quote:

It seems like quite a high RPM. My 1Z engine has almost similar values, around 2200 RPM at 120 km/h.

The speedometer reads 120, but the actual speed is closer to 110-113, so there's already a noticeable difference. The transmission in the Ibiza 6L with the ASZ engine has 2000 RPM at a true speed of 120.

Best regards,

Jan.