Einstellung der Einspritzpumpe Golf IV TDI 90PS | Posts 16+

Hermann wrote:

By loosening the camshaft gear and rotating the camshaft further, it can be corrected.

Hi Hermann,

That actually sounds logical. At least the position of the KW-ESP wheel is correct.

But how will you turn the camshaft if the tensioned belt is still exerting additional lateral forces on it? You can't apply force to the camshaft lobes. The slot for the locking gauge is covered 50% by the cylinder head, and there's nothing underneath the bearing shells either .

Hello everyone,
If the ESP was installed 180° incorrectly, it would have injected into the exhaust stroke. This can be corrected by loosening the camshaft gear and rotating the camshaft further. In theory, the Bosch workshop might have done it this way without removing the timing belt. What was the mileage on the belt when it ripped? At least 3 years old. For some models, the replacement is due at 60,000 km. But even 90,000 km in 3 years wouldn't be unusual.

Hello Hermann,

The car was manufactured in 03/1998 and currently has 100,000 km. At 90,000 km, I had the timing belt and tensioner replaced. At 95,000 km, the ESP system failed, and at 100,000 km, the timing belt broke, slipping against the cover and then slowly disintegrating into its individual parts, and that happened on the highway...

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I don't know how it is with yours, but on my old Passat TD (1985), the ESP wheel had two holes for the locking pin, and they were 'symmetrically' distributed around the wheel... but I'm not entirely sure anymore. You could only recognize the correct position of the ESP wheel by a small notch on the outermost edge. Accordingly, you could also lock the wheel exactly by rotating it 180°.


I think the ESP wheel looks more like the one on your 1Z, so it has some larger holes and one where the centering pin should fit.

@fighter

Unfortunately, I'm currently working and don't have access to literature, etc., but I believe I remember reading in Etzold's 'Good Night' manual (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3768806251/qid=1084301762/sr=8-2/ref=sr_aps_prod_2_1/302-9433383-6713618)) how to adjust the ESP if the injection start is adjusted using those mysterious screws.
However, I find it rather unlikely that it's exactly 180 degrees.

When I brought my Golf to the Bosch workshop, the timing belt was correctly installed and adjusted... the timing was set correctly from crankshaft to camshaft, and the engine could be started using the starter motor, but it wouldn't run on its own due to incorrect valve timing of the ESP (electronic stability program).

I think that's not possible . The starting point is the camshaft and crankshaft, both at top dead center (TDC) for cylinder 1. Then, the timing wheel is loosened, and the crankshaft is rotated (while the camshaft remains stationary). After 90 degrees, all pistons are at bottom dead center (BDC). When 180 degrees are reached, pistons 2 and 3 are at TDC, and at that point, the open valves (with the timing wheel 'locked') are waiting for something, or am I missing something?


That is the question. We should avoid twisting the crankshaft (KW) if the belt is broken, unless it's a definite freewheeler.

So, we need a volunteer who can carefully remove the candles and then rotate them with enough finesse .

CU Gremlin.

VWKämpfer wrote:

The car was manufactured in 03/1998 and currently has 100,000 km. At 90,000 km, I had the timing belt and tensioner replaced. At 95,000 km, the ESP system failed, and at 100,000 km, the timing belt broke, slipping off the cover and then slowly disintegrating into its individual parts, and that happened on the highway...

You can probably imagine what happened next...

Hi fighters,

Something like that sounds typical for insufficient timing belt tension. The belt then runs against the outer edge of the tensioner roller and eventually fails. A friend of mine experienced this once, and by chance, he discovered it in time... it was about 3000 km after the replacement .

So, Bosch can also blame improper handling on the user...

Gremlin wrote:

that is the question. We should avoid twisting the crankshaft

if the belt is off, unless it's a definite freewheeler....

Okay, so if I loosen the nut on the crankshaft pulley, I rotate the camshaft either 90 degrees to the left or right to ensure that no piston is at top dead center... in case someone accidentally rotates the crankshaft incorrectly.

You absolutely must remember in which direction you turned the KW (torque wrench), otherwise, your aforementioned experiment might be in order }.

The car was manufactured in 03/1998 and currently has 100,000 km. At 90,000 km, I had the timing belt and tensioner replaced. At 95,000 km, the ESP system failed, and at 100,000 km, the timing belt broke, rubbing against the cover and then slowly disintegrating into its individual parts, and that happened on the highway... :DYou can probably imagine what happened after that...

Hi fighters,

Something like that sounds typical for insufficient timing belt tension. The belt then runs against the outer edge of the tensioner roller and eventually fails. A friend of mine experienced this once, and by chance, he discovered it in time... it was about 3000 km after the replacement .

So, Bosch can also blame us for improper handling...


Hello Christian,

I also find what you wrote to be logical, because if I loosen the camshaft pulley using the taper and leave the tensioner in its fixed position (as it was before loosening the pulley), then when I tighten the pulley onto the taper again, I will certainly have different tensions than before... or am I wrong here?
and even with too little or too much tension on the belt, it can still move, right????

However, there's a spring in the tensioner that automatically re-tensions the timing belt during stretching, etc. If the spring pre-tension was too low (the markings on the tensioner didn't match), then it could have caused the problem you're experiencing. The condition of the timing belt and its tension upon delivery from Bosch is, in my opinion, not a reliable indicator. At that point, the car had zero kilometers on the odometer.

joergs wrote:

If, of course, the spring tension was too low (the markings on the tensioner roller didn't match),

then that could also have caused your problem.

Hi Joerg,

"That was the problem with this vehicle (the tensioner was adjusted by feel rather than according to the markings, resulting in very little tension). As a result, 30% of the timing belt material was worn away due to friction between the edge of the tensioner and the belt."

Quote:

The Bosch workshop claims that they did not loosen or tighten the timing belt

.

The fact is, no matter what I do, as soon as I loosen the camshaft sprocket, the timing belt becomes loose.
So, that statement is complete nonsense.

Hi,

Does the Bosch workshop want to have the valve timing corrected on a engine with a timing chain?
If they did that, the store should be shut down, and the expert who claims it's possible should be locked up!

When the timing chain is excessively stretched, the side forces acting on the gears become so great that it is no longer possible to correctly re-engage a detached gear onto the camshaft. In the worst case, the camshaft gear becomes damaged or "ovalized."

Therefore, it is absolutely necessary to release the tension on the timing belt (as Ranier already mentioned), and that is likely where the fatal mistake occurred. Whether the timing was ultimately corrected by completely removing the belt or by rotating the crankshaft pulley is irrelevant to the damage. In any case, the timing belt must have been loosened (released).

Hi,

Does the Bosch workshop want to have the valve timing corrected on a engine with a timing chain?
If they did that, the store should be shut down, and the expert who claims it's possible should be locked up!

When the timing chain is excessively stretched, the side forces acting on the gears become so great that it is no longer possible to correctly re-engage a detached gear onto the camshaft. In the worst case, the camshaft gear becomes damaged or 'ovalized.'

Relaxing the timing belt tensioner is absolutely necessary (as Ranier already mentioned), and that's likely where the fatal mistake occurred. How the timing was ultimately corrected, whether by completely removing the belt or by rotating the crankshaft pulley, is irrelevant to the damage. In any case, the timing belt must have been loosened (relaxed).

'But what if, as I described in my scenario, the positions of the crankshaft (KW) and camshaft (NW) were correct, and only the electronic spark advance (ESP) was off? In that case, wouldn't it be possible to achieve the correct timing by rotating the pump, without loosening the timing chain (ZR)? Of course, you wouldn't be able to rotate it by 180 degrees, but perhaps 1-2 teeth would be enough to get the car running, based on my scenario.'

If the pump was mounted at a different angle, it is essential to loosen and remove the timing belt.

Hi Joerg,

By twisting the pump, you can correct the start of the feed (within small limits). This should also work without loosening the timing belt. However, if the gears are loosened, the timing belt must be loosened in any case. Otherwise, the timing belt sprockets will tilt sideways and cannot be properly adjusted (and their longevity will be questionable).
The workshop on the northwest side likely made the correction to the wheel. However, this would only work if the position of the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is correctly aligned with the rear axle (KW). I doubt that's the case. This is where "Gremlins" might come into play, meaning there could be an underlying issue or unexpected factor.

I find it hard to believe that such a "repair from the back, through the chest, into the eye" is possible. It would be a terrible and complicated procedure, and aside from the time involved, I wouldn't do it (or have it done) that way. This is a pure excuse to shift the blame for the water pump installation onto the "ESP exchange workshop."

@bertil

Hmmm... it all comes down to what really happened! We probably won't be able to figure that out. But I completely agree that you have to somehow adjust the zero offset (ZR) with greater tolerance in order to properly calibrate it. And that would likely be a protective measure. And the expert who then blames the workshop for it should be thoroughly criticized.

From my perspective, we now have several possible solutions, both with and without resetting the Zündreihenfolge (ignition sequence), for both minor and major corrections. Ultimately, what actually happened, we will probably never fully understand. Only the Bosch workshop knows for sure!

Hi Joerg,

By twisting the pump, you can correct the start of the feed (within small limits). This should also work without loosening the timing belt. However, if the gears are loosened, the timing belt must be loosened in any case. Otherwise, the timing belt sprockets will tilt sideways and cannot be properly adjusted (and their longevity will be questionable).
The workshop on the northwest side likely made the correction to the wheel. However, this would only work if the position of the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) is correctly aligned with the rear axle (which I doubt). This is where Gremlins' approach might be relevant.

I find it hard to believe that such a 'repair from behind, through the chest, into the eye' is possible. That would be a terrible mess, and apart from the time involved, I wouldn't do it (or have it done) that way. It's a pure excuse to shift the blame for the timing chain installation onto the 'ESP exchange workshop.'

Hello Bertil,

I've read your opinions about it, and I think it's totally great that you've written to me about it... What you've written here, no one from VW could confirm, which is sad... The best thing is that I need to find out how the Bosch workshop actually did it... That would be the best, but... they haven't commented to this day on how they actually adjusted it... That's already an indication that they're hiding something... ...I'll figure it out, someone is responsible, and they will pay for it.