Motor-Upgrade 130 -> 160 PS? | Posts 16+

Jay_Dee wrote:

The ASZ and ARL chargers have different connector pieces. The charge air path is also different. ASZ = Liquid cooling system in the frame triangle. ARL = LLK in front of the water cooler

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At least, the rubber seals at the compressor outlet are the same for both ARL and ASZ engines. This already suggests an identical flange geometry.

The direction of the opening can still be different, of course.
For example, the outlet of the compressor on the turbocharger might have a 90-degree bend to the right, while other outlets (of the same dimensions) might point upwards or downwards.

Jetzt müßte man eine Quelle für Maßzeichnungen der fraglichen Lader haben . . .


By the way, I contacted Grundler/all4TDI about my idea yesterday. If you're interested, I can post their response...

Hi Ulf!

It is unfortunately incorrect to conclude from identical charge pressures in both the turbocharger system (ASZ) and the air recirculation system (ARL) that there are identical mass flow rates. Due to the larger and more effective intercooler, a greater mass of air can be forced through with the same charge pressure .

Therefore, the statement that the ARL loader is designed for higher mass flow rates might be correct, but this is beyond my knowledge.

Regards,
Alex.

Did the ASZ actually receive parts from the ARL starting in MJ2003, or did the ARL receive parts from the ASZ, or were there completely new parts for both engines?

Higher index numbers for both engines.

donalexo wrote:

It is unfortunately incorrect to conclude from identical charge pressures in ASZ and ARL systems that there are identical mass flow rates. Due to the larger and more effective intercooler, a greater mass of air can be forced through with the same charge pressure

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I understand that already - my answer was in response to Klima96's question.

Quote:

What would happen if the ARL charger were simply installed in the ASZ? Ohne im STG etwas zu ändern ?

So (for me), even with the original ASZ-LLK...

@Ulf,

It kind of interests me.

P.S.: From what I know about the ARL engine, the turbocharger is visually completely identical to my ASZ engine, including all flanges and connection pipes in the charge air system. The first difference between the ASZ and ARL charge air cooler connections appears where the charge air system branches off: on the ASZ, it's to the left (when viewed from above, below the windshield washer reservoir), while on the ARL, it's to the right. Therefore, the red connection pipe on the turbocharger looks identical on both the Golf ARL and ASZ. I believe this means that swapping the turbocharger shouldn't be a problem. Whether it makes sense to do so is something only Ulf can tell us at this time. Of course, I don't know what the charge air system looks like on the 9N; I suspect there will be significant differences.

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

In the turbochargers (ARL) that I am familiar with, the OPTISCH turbocharger is completely identical to my ASZ engine, including all flanges and connection pipes of the charge air system.

Well, that gives some hope for the Polo.

However, the superchargers (KKK!) are likely different from those in the Golf 4 (Garrett) – probably because there is less space behind the engine, and therefore the turbocharger for the Polo/Ibi has to be more compact.

The Ibi Cupra has a Garrett turbocharger again .
If it were to be as large externally as the one from the ARL, they probably bent the inner fender of the Cupra inwards to create space... in that case, I'd probably have to give up on the idea.

Does the supercharger outlet on the ASZ/ARL Golf also point horizontally to the right, like on the Ibiza/Polo?

Quote:

Natürlich weiß ich nicht wie die Ladeluftstrecke beim 9N aussieht, ich denke da wird einiges anders sein.

Yes, certainly - since probably not a single part number is the same between Golf and Polo (except for the sealing rings ).

Looking at the compressor outlet from below, it points to the right (red charge air hose, which I always wonder why it's red).

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

The compressor outlet points to the right when viewed from below.

so, for the passenger side , like in the Polo.

Quote:

red charging air hose, and I always wonder why it's red

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Warum lackieren manche Leute ihre Bremssättel rot ?

Someone might have had a practical reason for the red hose: oil leaks are more noticeable on red hoses than on black ones.
However, this period of meaningful design (if there was any real thought behind it) probably didn't last long: the Polo now has black hoses again...

...yes, passenger side; it could have been phrased more simply. The point about the "leak detection dye" is an interesting one...

Here's a picture of the interior of an Ibiza Cupra.



The perverse thing about installing it with the original parts would be that the LLK itself only costs around €300, but all the pipework costs significantly more.

incredibly large. Well, in the Golf, it probably won't just fail due to the price; the water heat exchanger is also too close to the shock absorber mount, leaving no more space for such a huge radiator.

Yesterday, I called Wendland and inquired about the possibility of converting an ASZ to a BPX engine with TÜV approval.
Answer (in short form): Anything is possible.

Regarding the cylinder block and water pump, it was stated that the ARL and BPX engines had larger pumps and a correspondingly larger chamber for the water wheel compared to the ASZ engine. However, the ASZ block could be bored out to accommodate the larger pump.
Then one might wonder if, for example, the remaining coolant channels in the ASZ block are narrower, such that even with the ARL pump, the circulation rate would not be achievable as with the original ARL/BPX .

It seems clear to me that with simple chip tuning of an ASZ engine (compared to the factory engines), not only is the turbocharger potentially overloaded, but the engine also runs hotter than usual. The question then becomes, how much hotter?

I contacted Wendland and requested a quote from them.

that you would then also show to other interested ASZ members for review?

The compressor outlet points to the right when viewed from below (red charge air hose, which I always wonder why it's red).

because red suggests power, and a peek under the hood will then make the driver happy...

No way! / Seriously! / You're kidding!

@ulf

Should I get you a starter booster from a C-130?

*duck and cover*


CU Gremlin.

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

das du dann auch anderen interessierten ASZ'lern zur Einsicht zeigen würdest?

Via private message -> why not?
It's not here yet, maybe around Christmas time...

@Gremlin:
I don't like buying cats in a bag – so, tell me a little bit about the starter booster (if it would even fit in the engine compartment of a Polo ).