Fabia RS - Leistung fehlt | Posts 32+

Mine also leaks a little oil at the lowest point . I saw it last weekend when I had him on the lift and installed the springs. The connection there is roughly horizontal. I'm not sure, but I think it's the connection to the LLK (Low-Level Knock). In general, my oil consumption is very low. So little that I don't have to top it up between service intervals. However, what I've noticed (which is rare!!) is that he sometimes starts whistling quietly when idling. I never thought much about that before (ignorance of the diesel newbie). Could the slight whistling at idle be related to the oil leak?

As I said, this is very rare... but it does make you think. Maybe it depends on the weather conditions or the extent of the area affected... or who knows what else.

What do you think?

ulf wrote:

SG 7000 is a newer data version of 019NF, which I am not familiar with. However, your problem with the high overshoot of the LD signal is consistent with what was seen in the previous version of the 019NF.

Oh, so I'm not the only one experiencing such high overshoot?
"But surely Skoda would have noticed that if it's already present in the old software. I haven't dared to adjust it yet , because I'm worried about my warranty. If something goes wrong and they see that someone has tampered with it, they will immediately blame me (and rightfully so). This has nothing to do with me not believing you ."

Hello everyone.

It's actually normal for some oil to leak from the lowest point of the engine crankcase, and surprisingly, it can be a good thing if it doesn't cause any noticeable oil stains underneath the vehicle.

The reason is not immediately obvious.

The engine always leaks oil through the crankshaft seal (KGE). The amount of oil leaked varies depending on the oil level in the engine.
This oil spreads throughout the LL track and accumulates at the lowest point.

Now, the rubber seals have a problem: they constantly swell due to the oil leak and will eventually tear.
This can be prevented by not completely sealing the lowest point, so that oil accumulation cannot occur.

Inaudible leaks (if they exist at all) are so small that the loader doesn't really 'notice' the losses through the relatively tiny cross-sections - because a pressure difference of 1 bar or more will make quite a noise, even with very small holes.

And for this reason, the skin can be protected by not making the product completely occlusive and allowing oil to escape through its capillary properties.

There were times when these connections were poorly manufactured, causing the coolant hoses to detach from the radiator.
A nail provided the solution...

Best regards, Jochen.

Boon wrote:

Oh... so I'm not the only one with such high overshoot values?

If I'm not completely misinterpreting the old 019NF software, it seems to contain information about the problems you're experiencing, without requiring a misaligned charger or anything like that.
As far as I know, all ASZ (presumably a specific type of device or system) with the model number 019NF likely have this problem.

Quote:

But surely, something like that would have been noticed by Skoda, especially if it was already present in the old software.

There are three major obstacles to overcome before a change in state can occur.
1. notice (how, without LDA or random MWB11 trips?).
2. realize that the problem could eventually become expensive for the vehicle manufacturer.
3. convince the MSG programmers of the need for a change because the new data status (including approvals, etc.) will certainly cost less than the expected consequences as outlined in point 2.

It's likely that the issues with the LD overboosters are resolved by part number 1 at the latest, because I haven't encountered any cases of faulty turbochargers or head gaskets on the ASZ engine within the Polo platform during the warranty period.

@ Jochen
Well, I'm actually glad that I'm finally not losing any more oil there.
I think that this oil is now being torn away by the airflow and "disposed of" through the intake side.
The swelling and tearing would probably happen anyway. In my case, the entire length of the lower lip seal is wet with oil, which is likely constantly being replenished by the automatic transmission fluid (ATF).

VW is also saying: "They're all losing oil there! No need to panic!"
Great reaction!
I think we should, just to be on the safe side, puncture all the LL hoses with a nail! Then the oil can come out quickly, nothing will swell, and the car will also rust less because it's covered by a thin film of oil!
haithamina

I think that this oil is now being torn away by the air and 'disposed of' through the intake side in the LL section.
The swelling and tearing would likely happen anyway. In my case, the entire length of the lower lip seal is coated with oil, which is probably constantly being replenished by the automatic transmission fluid (ATF).


The swelling only occurs if there is enough oil in the hoses. It probably won't cause any problems with a wet application.
The problem is that when the engine is not running, all the oil gradually collects towards the lowest point.
Then there's the oil spill, which can wonderfully and permanently diffuse into the hose.

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

Now, the rubber seals have a problem: they permanently swell due to an oil leak and will eventually tear. This can be prevented by not completely sealing the lowest point, so that oil accumulation cannot occur. Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. There were times when these connections were poorly manufactured, causing the coolant hoses to detach from the radiator. A nail provided a solution...

Amazing... but how about the newer TDI engines with up to 100 horsepower?

"As far as I know, crimp connectors are still quite common there, and they are completely watertight (when the material is intact)."
If there's a piece of tubing at the lowest point, you should seriously consider grabbing something to hold it down before the swollen tube eventually bursts, and then you're forced to drive only in the "suction range" (yawn) due to the large leak, without causing excessive soot buildup or testing the overspeed resistance of the turbocharger?

haithamina wrote:

I think that this oil is now being torn away by the airflow in the LL section and "disposed of" through the intake side.

In my opinion, you can disregard this: a puddle of thick oil will at best be pushed up a few centimeters by the intake air flow and then remain stuck on the inside wall of the pipe until things calm down (i.e., the journey ends).
Because the velocity profile within the pipe shows that only slight flow occurs at the pipe walls, while the highest velocities are concentrated in the center of the pipe.
When the car is stopped again, the oil flows comfortably back down and continues to gnaw at the hose...

"Mine has hose clamps everywhere and is also sealed tight. I haven't had any problems so far. My turbocharger hardly leaks any oil, and my intercooler has a cyclone filter. Nevertheless, after about 200,000 km, there should be quite a bit of buildup inside."

Since oil tends to collect in the lowest point (as a puddle, not as a film), it would likely accumulate either at the bottom of the lower engine casing (where the hose connections are located higher up) or in the swingarm pivot area. I assume that in these locations, the oil shouldn't cause any problems.

I also suspect that the air is pulling the oil out, because I once had a slightly leaky spot (a hose clamp was a little loose) on a nearly vertical hose at the top. Oil came out of it then too. It would never have leaked out "on its own" like that.

I can also imagine that a perforation, for example caused by a nail, could open a path for the oil to enter the tissue sheath, thus accelerating or even enabling the (alleged - I still can't believe it. How could this happen at VAG and their suppliers? Well... I know...) swelling.
It's clear that some oil is being drawn in, although not *all* of it, when you consider the issue of EGR sludge. People with malfunctioning EGR systems often claim that this drawn-in oil has a cleaning effect on the intake manifold/cylinder head. It's not as thick as you might think, especially considering the low temperatures that can occur on the highway. Furthermore, at engine speeds like 3000 RPM, a significant amount of air is being forced through. In pure city driving, I doubt any of this oil is being "drawn in."
Anyone who is actively puncturing the LL hose should definitely wrap a collection container around it to catch any leaking oil.
haithamina

Herr Antje wrote:

I also suspect that the air is pulling the oil out, because I once had a slightly leaky spot (a screw clamp was a little loose) on the top of a nearly vertical hose. The oil came out from there as well. That oil would never have "voluntarily" come out from there.

Do not confuse with:

Oil puddles in the pipes will not be "atomized" or dried out (at most, they will be shifted, as mentioned above) due to the relatively slow air currents within the pipe.
It doesn't even require that to apply a thin film of oil around leaks at the top of pipes or hoses.
"Because oil mist from the turbocharger is carried along with the intake air and forced through all the leaks. What "condenses" in that hole is quickly pushed outwards by the high speed of the air (which creates the characteristic leak noises) and forms the visible seepage there."

-> Therefore, this system does not require oil from puddles in the pipes, but only oil from a "fresh" mist of KGE (lubricating coolant emulsion).

@Ulf
"But that's exactly what I meant. Mine has thick hoses with hose clamps. Nevertheless, nothing will happen because all the hose sections are designed in such a way that no oil will leak out. The oil puddles will collect somewhere else, at the lowest point, where mine doesn't have any hoses or connections. To find the puddles, I poured out the coolant."

Your theory that the oil accumulates directly at the connection and only leaks out when disconnected from the LD (because the LD ensures the connection is sealed) does not apply to mine (assuming I had your connections).

I don't know about your connections and, more importantly, how they are positioned. If the connection also represents a deeper point in the track, it would theoretically be possible. However, you would then need to be able to "leak" a drop of fluid immediately after a longer journey if you disconnect the connection...

However, on my unit as well, there were places where traces of leakage could be seen. In those areas, the escaping air likely carried away the leaked fluid. It looked more like droplets than if it had condensed under pressure. So I exchanged it, but otherwise, it would have been impossible; oil doesn't drip upwards...

I believe that the swelling of the hoses due to puddles of oil is unlikely in my case.

If our vehicles are comparable, I suspect that a small amount of lubricating fluid (LD) is leaking from those points. I don't know whether it's just forming a puddle there, or whether oil being blown around is condensing at the leak.

Are your connections not the same or similar to the connections that mine have in the cooling system, between the hoses and the radiator? If these connections only seal under pressure, that wouldn't be ideal.

Mine has hose clamps everywhere and is also leak-proof. However, I haven't had any problems yet. My turbocharger hardly leaks any oil, and my intercooler has the cyclone filter. Nevertheless, after approximately 200,000 km, there should be quite a bit of sediment inside.


Hi Tom, if your cyclone is working correctly, there shouldn't be anything in the LL section.
Therefore, my filter will finally be installed in the next few days.

I didn't personally 'find out' this information; I haven't had my Leon for that long. Instead, I learned it from our engine specialists, some of whom used to work directly on turbo development at VAG.

I was also very careful when I found out about this.
But it's a known problem at Volkswagen (see above). Incidentally, the hole in the lower link arm was made by drilling into the plastic of the lower control arm.
I was also advised to never fill the engine oil level above the halfway mark on the dipstick. Any excess oil will simply be directed into the intake manifold via the crankcase ventilation system, which exacerbates the problem.

Since I have a thermocouple directly connected to the low-pressure coolant line (LLK), and this line is located between the air hose and the LLK reservoir, my LLK line isn't completely sealed. The oil film that has formed around the reservoir clearly shows how much oil is accumulating there.

I don't know if the swelling is caused by oil penetrating into the edge of the section, or whether it even diffuses through the surface itself. I will try to figure it out. Regarding the first point, this doesn't apply to clip-on systems: the ends are guided in metal.

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

"If your cyclone is working correctly, there shouldn't be anything in the LL (low-level) section." Therefore, my filter will finally be installed in the next few days. 2) By the way, the hole in the LL track was made by piercing the plastic of the LLC (Liquid Level Control). 3) I was also advised to never fill the engine oil level above the halfway mark on the dipstick. Any excess oil will simply be directed into the intake manifold via the crankcase ventilation system, which exacerbates the problem.

Hello Jochen,
"Well, if that's the case, then it's not working properly. Some oil is still leaking through, but only a very small amount. Do you think the AKE filter has a 100% effectiveness?"
"I suspect that the hoses were damaged and have been leaking over time. I also expect to find puddles of liquid in the LLK (low-level coolant reservoir) on my car. However, I'm going to leave it as is for now. What I don't understand is, if the oil is draining into the LLK, how can it then seep into the hoses? Shouldn't there be a puddle of liquid *in* the LLK?"
3) Well, according to point 1), that was canceled for me. Also, I drive from full to over half with each change (approximately 30,000 km).

Where does the oil go if it's not leaking out (in this case, from the low-level check)? It must either be burned or return to the low-level check system. I can't imagine a "disturbing/destructive" puddle forming inside the hose.

@ Jochen
So, things are getting more and more surprising:

Quote:

Incidentally, the hole in the LL track was made by piercing the plastic of the LLC.

.
How do they do that? Are they heating the plastic? The nail? Both? Hitting a nail into (e.g., a 20°C) "cold" LLDPE plastic is most likely to result in a nice crack, so you won't have to worry about a puddle forming in the LLDPE anymore.

Quote:

I was also instructed to never fill the engine oil level above 1/2 on the dipstick. Any additional oil will simply be directed into the intake manifold via the crankcase ventilation system, which exacerbates the problem.

"Hmm? So, are all the owner's manuals at VW wrong? In my case, the area on the dipstick (min-max) is equivalent to 200-300 ml of engine oil. That means that 100-150 ml of oil would be drained into the catalytic converter through the KGE (catalytic converter emulator)? After what distance? So, are we all driving around with the dipstick always showing a maximum level of about half? Well, that's quite a lot of puddles in the catalytic converter housing, or on the perforated components under the engine cover and underneath the car."

Quote:

I don't know if the swelling is caused by oil penetrating into the edge of the section, or whether it even diffuses through the surface. I will try to find out. If this is the first point, it doesn't apply to clip systems: the ends are guided in metal.

The latter would mean that the cut edge of the hose can NEVER come into contact with the oil in the clip systems. I suspect that the hose and the stainless steel end are simply pushed together and "crimped" or glued. Therefore, the oil will inevitably find its way to the cut edge. So, I don't believe that the clip systems are immune to swelling.
I'm still wondering if that can actually happen.
Are there any pictures of these hoses that have swollen due to motor oil and then subsequently cracked?
haithamina

The hole in the LL track, by the way, was made by piercing the plastic of the LLC.
How do they do that? Are they heating the plastic? The nail? Both? Hitting a nail into (e.g., a 20°C) 'cold' LLDPE plastic is most likely to result in a nice crack, so you won't have to worry about a puddle forming in the LLDPE anymore.

I haven't done that yet; it might have been a drill, but basically, it involves draining oil at the lowest point of the left lane section.

So, would 100-150 ml of oil be drained through the crankcase ventilation system into the lower engine compartment? After what distance? Are we all driving around with the dipstick showing a maximum of half its surface area? Well, that's quite a bit of pooling in the lower engine compartment, or on the perforated parts under the engine cover and underneath the car.
Yes, the oil will be disposed of through the central grease management system until that level is reached.
It's unlikely there will be puddles of oil under the car, as most of it is burned off.
The substance that leaks out of faulty hoses or similar components accumulates as oil residue on the pipes.
I can confirm the same for my ASV accounts:
After the oil change, the engine was filled to the 'full' mark, but the hoses are clogged (see above). The oil level drops to halfway on the dipstick and then no further.
They confirmed it to you at Volkswagen, didn't they?
By the way, VW also says: 'They all leak oil there! No need to panic!'
Excellent reaction!

I asked why VW doesn't change the dipsticks. However, I can no longer exactly remember the answer .
Perhaps someone could check the part numbers to see if there were any changes during the production period.

I still wonder if that can actually happen.
Are there any photos of these hoses that have swollen due to motor oil and then cracked?

There are definitely pictures, but I don't have any.
Apparently, this problem occurred so frequently that the 5-cylinder engine even had to be equipped with a cyclone separator. (The replacement part costs €48, which is also a significant cost factor for the production series.)

Fundamentally, contrast-enhanced imaging is not without its problems, especially in patients with chronic kidney disease.

Best regards, Jochen.

It seems reasonable to have either a type of oil drain plug in the coolant reservoir or a sealable hose (similar to those found on motorcycles). This would allow draining the oil that accumulates in the coolant reservoir when the vehicle is stationary, for example, during an inspection.
I'm not particularly confident in the quality of this LLK plastic. A thread probably won't hold up well there.
I definitely don't want to be traveling with a permanently perforated disposable lower garment.
haithamina