leicht OT: Rückrufaktion wegen Relais 109 | Posts 32+

right, the sensor membrane is a 'heating resistor' (principle of the mass airflow sensor).
mit Gehäuse meine ich die Luftführung, mit geber den eigentlichen Sensor mit elektronik (Hitzdraht - Heißfilm - oder mikromech. Heissfilm - ).
Only the term '' 'child' needs to be given a name if the LMM is now being sold at a much lower price - it is very unlikely that making a repair cheaper would be like producing a new one. }

The sensor membrane is manufactured using a micro-mechanical process. At its center is a heating resistor, which is regulated to prevent overheating (the extent of which depends on the ambient temperature). Temperature sensors are located in the upstream and downstream paths of this heating resistor. The temperature difference between these sensors is dependent on the airflow and serves as an airflow signal.
So, there's nothing to do with heating wire!

What I can imagine is that the hybrid and the hybrid lid are removed and reinstalled. However, I don't think that would be significantly cheaper than manufacturing a new one! Maybe you're right about the 'child' and the new name! Despite the effort involved, I can't imagine that the new part costs significantly more than, say, 20-25 euros in total. I'm not really convinced by the excuse about calibration in the cylinder tube, since the probe is available separately and is also replaced. When something is replaced, nothing is calibrated, and it still works.

Okay, enough off-topic talk for now? We can start a new thread about the LMM!

Everything was perfect, just as described.
'Hitzdraht' is the first variant of LMM.
(I sometimes slip up - sorry)

The LMMs (Log Management and Monitoring data) are provided to the manufacturer for standard error analysis and for providing evidence in warranty claims (the warranty period can be up to 5 years, depending on the contract!).

You don't seriously believe that VW isn't (at least partially) covering these costs themselves, do you?
There's also a catch regarding the alleged operation outside of specifications. The component manufacturer has to approve the application. If they do so, they are fully liable and cannot later claim that the operation outside of specifications is the reason for any issues.
Unfortunately, that's just the way things are.

Hi,

I've also had experience with relay 109; I re-soldered it myself, and apparently, it's been working perfectly for almost a year.

I had another unpleasant experience with a relay; my load shedding relay failed, which meant no ABS, no lights, and no ventilation.

After this disappointment, I opened all the relays and reflowed the solder joints as a preventative measure.

I hope to be spared from such disruptions in the future.

I also had to replace the LMM (lambda sensor) once, after driving just over 100,000 kilometers.

Good morning!

The idea about the Autobild story is a very good one. As mentioned before, this is a very powerful medium, and we should definitely take that into consideration!

The fact that the goodwill regulation still doesn't work with the LLM once again shows what's going on... $$$

Due to all the politics and financial maneuvering, I've stopped buying VW cars for about two years now. In recent years, I had inspections done at six different VW workshops with my two TDI cars. Except for one instance, all the others either did a sloppy job (e.g., 'forgetting' to change the oil filter, using too much oil, or 1 liter too little oil), or they called me to say that parts needed to be replaced that were already new (e.g., the timing belt) or that the replacement was unnecessary.

Subject:
It would be important to gather some data, such as when the first failures occurred, and until when the old 109 model was used?!
@all: Please post some data.


It is one of the Relais & Coalesce 109 affected units. Fortunately, it was still under warranty, but the dealership took a whopping 14 days to diagnose the problem.


^^ What kind of company is VAG (or the department that handles authorized dealers)?!
It's unbelievable that some authorized dealers are aware of what's going on, while others spend two weeks trying to find the problem. VW is one of the largest German corporations and a kind of 'flagship,' so things should be organized properly.

@rainer K.:
At Audi, there is even a work instruction specifying what should happen to the 'problematic' 109 version: it should be scrapped.

Do you know when this work instruction is from?

When it comes to new products in the showroom or the latest sales training for the salespeople, it seems that the information sharing/instructions work better; I certainly haven't had ANY problems with that so far, and it works perfectly well at VAG, grade A* .

Best regards, Kapernaum.

kapernaum wrote:

The idea about the Autobild story is a very good one, as mentioned before, this is a very powerful medium, which we should definitely also take into account!

Contact the KBA (German Federal Motor Transport Authority) and explain the error and the potential security risks associated with it. They are the only organization in Germany that can put pressure on car manufacturers and enforce penalties.
The fact that the manufacturer tells the press something and then doesn't implement it as promised can be seen with the LMM (likely referring to a specific product or technology).

Quote:

^^ What kind of company is VAG (or the department that handles authorized dealers)? It's unbelievable that some authorized dealers are aware of what's going on, while others spend two weeks trying to find the problem. VW is one of the largest German corporations and a kind of "flagship," so things should be organized properly.

I also went to a VAG dealer for years who were unable to find even the simplest problems or to have any specific knowledge about my cars. Nowadays, I believe they were just blindly poking around.
With the current dealer, you receive an explanation of the problem verbally, and sometimes even before the repair is carried out.
Those who use (or can/want to use) VW's diagnostic systems quickly obtain the correct error code (or at least a clue as to what's wrong). A lot depends on the mentality of the workshop and its employees.

Quote:

When it comes to new products in the showroom or the latest sales training for the salespeople, it seems that the information sharing/instructions work better; I certainly haven't had ANY problems with that so far, and it works perfectly well at VAG, grade A*.

See above. If the workshop wants to, it can be just as well-structured and informative as the sales training.

I also went to a VAG dealer for years who were unable to find even the simplest problems or had any real knowledge about my cars. In the meantime, I believe they were just blindly poking around.
With the current dealer, you receive an explanation of the problem verbally, and sometimes even before the repair is carried out.
Those who use (or can/want to use) VW's diagnostic systems quickly obtain the correct error code (or at least a clue as to what's wrong). A lot depends on the mentality of the workshop and its employees.


That's correct. However, unfortunately, in most dealerships, the master technicians responsible for these systems often can't properly operate the keyboard, and some don't even want to. On the other hand, when it comes to invoicing, it does work. To properly use these information systems, one needs the ambition not to reinvent the wheel, and also the ability and willingness to correctly interpret the indicators in order to avoid getting caught up in a cycle of unnecessary repairs. Unfortunately, such expertise and know-how are very rare in most automotive group companies. Often, the PC and everything related to it is seen as a necessary evil and pushed aside. On the other hand, it's easier to make money with unnecessary repairs and firefighting than to get to the root of the problems. This is unfortunately common practice in car dealerships, regardless of the brand. The customer usually can't check it, and they are dependent on their four wheels.

@joergs

Hello,

LMMs will soon be available for exchange - no delivery date possible yet (they probably still have enough new ones in stock).

Goodwill.
- Up to 36 months and 100,000 km.
- up to 48 months and 100,000 km.

Greetings, HHRasputin.

Good evening!

I haven't forgotten about the whole thing (after all, I made a huge fuss and stirred things up), and I just wanted to let you know that it's still being worked on... I'm currently writing my dissertation and have 'other' concerns...
Definitely, a letter will be sent out (which I will post here beforehand) to the following recipients:

VAG.
autobild
Federal Motor Vehicle Office.

However, I think it's important that community members post about who is currently experiencing problems with this product... also (naively thought), regarding the letter, we could potentially attach a sort of anonymous list to help expedite the process.

Good evening.

greetings from Capernaum