VCDS und OBD Diagnosegerät
CAN Hardware, CAN Software, CAN Protocols - CAN-Bus Forum for your CAN-Bus project. CAN-Bus and Electronics.

Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! | Posts 32+

 
Go to page: Previous  1, 2, 3
New Topic Reply 🔗 🖨 Dieselschrauber - Overview » Diesel Engine Technology
Author Message
Bertil
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Forum member since: 15.04.2002
Posts: 5628
Karma: +108 / -0   Thank you, like!


Premium Support

Post05-01-2005, 13:52    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

ulf wrote:

My PD has no permanent power connection to the engine control unit according to the SLP, and therefore cannot notice disconnecting the battery, but only turning the ignition on or off.


I am not aware of other circuits in VW TDIs either.
When the ignition is off, the engine control unit is completely without power.

ATTENTION: Do not change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Gruß Bertil

Skoda 5E5 CZDA + Mini R50 W10 + VW ID.3 + Fiat Ducato 250 + 161 DX

*** Technische Anfragen per PN werden von mir nicht beantwortet! ***
Back to top Profile PM
ttns4
Guest




 


Free account, no CAN development support

Post05-01-2005, 16:11    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

My PD has no permanent power connection to the engine control unit according to the SLP, and therefore cannot notice disconnecting the battery, but only turning the ignition on or off.

If turning the ignition off + on would clear the adaptation values every time, that would not be in the spirit of the inventor.
I haven't been able to observe this either - nor have I observed a more aggressive acceleration after each engine stop or battery disconnection.

@Ulf@Bertil:

This raises a question for me as a layman:
Why does the car behave like this?
Are the adaptation values stored in the control unit?
Or am I just missing something (the comfort control unit, the tachometer unit don't know...)
The question is, what exactly is being deleted, which would still have data in the memory when the ignition is simply turned off?
It's actually quite strange, my imagination can't be this extreme.
Is there a control unit/setting reset?

Regards
ttns4

ATTENTION: Do not change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Back to top
matthiasTDI96
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Forum member since: 27.02.2003
Posts: 5886
Karma: +251 / -0   Thank you, like!


Premium Support

Post05-01-2005, 16:25    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

I need to check the schematic, but I think that it only provides power to various comfort control devices for logical reasons (e.g., wireless alarm, interior monitoring). The rest should be off. What does the ABS / ESP / possibly automatic transmission need if the MSG is off?

WARNING: Do NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Back to top Profile PM
Bertil
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Forum member since: 15.04.2002
Posts: 5628
Karma: +108 / -0   Thank you, like!


Premium Support

Post05-01-2005, 19:00    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

Why does the car behave like this?

Because you are still disconnecting a lot more than just the M-STG, and there are many "dirty effects" possible.
Just disconnect the M.STG and you will find that it does not make a difference.

In addition, I am sure about a "placebo" effect.

Are the adaptation values stored in the control unit?

The adaptation values are stored in non-volatile (Flash) memory in the respective STGs.

The question is, what might be deleted, which would still have data in the memory when the car is simply turned off?

Again, to reiterate: NOTHING!

It is actually quite strange, my imagination cannot be that extreme.

But is it...? Do the Ulf DZR test and you will see.

Is there a control unit/setting reset?

No, at least not for the VW TDI M-STGs that I know.

I just had an idea....

There are vehicles in which the LMM is very slightly heated while in "standby". This is done to immediately obtain good LMM values after starting the engine. Whether this is also done at VW, I unfortunately cannot say. This heating is not controlled by the engine control unit. If you now disconnect the battery for 10 minutes, you will notice that the engine reacts differently.

WARNING: DO NOT change any HTML-tags, BBCode-tags, or URLs in the text!
Gruß Bertil

Skoda 5E5 CZDA + Mini R50 W10 + VW ID.3 + Fiat Ducato 250 + 161 DX

*** Technische Anfragen per PN werden von mir nicht beantwortet! ***
Back to top Profile PM
Gremlin
Guest




 


Free account, no CAN development support

Post05-01-2005, 20:29    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

only for the file:

the EDC does not perform any self-adjustments up to version 16 and does not store any adjustment values (e.g. the motronic)...

which ones?

therefore, the EDC also does not have a permanent plus connection...

CU Gremlin

ATTENTION: Do not change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Back to top
Zak1976



Forum member since: 09.03.2005
Posts: 225
Karma: +0 / -1   Thank you, like!
Location: Barendorf

Free account, no CAN development support

Post09-03-2005, 20:11    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

some of you seem to be having great luck with your TDIs, I'm not as familiar with the smaller TDIs, but I am with the ARL (the one with 150PS), which revs willingly up to 4000, then it gets sluggish up to 4500. This is because at least with the ARL, the boost pressure drops suddenly after 4000, so it's clear that there is much less power available after 4000 RPM (but with a little patience, you can still reach almost 240 kmh). I'm also curious why the boost pressure drops so much after this limit, I think the turbocharger could also run with the corresponding boost pressure up to almost 5000 RPM, or is the fuel injection system no longer able to keep up? It will definitely be regulated due to the emission limits, technically it should be possible.

WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE ANY HTML-TAGS, BBCODE-TAGS, OR URLs in the text!
Fährt mit Golf 3 TDI Umbau (von AFN auf ARL)
Back to top Profile PM E-Mail
ulf
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Forum member since: 13.04.2002
Posts: 11058
Karma: +18 / -0   Thank you, like!
Location: Saarland
2023 MG ZS
Premium Support

Post09-03-2005, 20:21    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

Zak1976 wrote:
But I'm also curious why the boost pressure drops so much after this limit, I think the turbocharger could also run at around 5000 RPM with the corresponding boost pressure or does the fuel injection system not cope with this?

1. The pressure drops from 4000 because the map dictates it icon_wink.gif (as does the ASZ).

2. The fuel injection pressure increases with the speed and the amount of fuel injected, and is always highest just before the PDE closes.
If you significantly extend the fuel delivery time at high speeds, the PDEs may potentially burst icon_eek.gif
. . . unless you use larger PDEs, but this worsens the emissions in the low-RPM range . . .

WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE ANY HTML-TAGS, BBCODE-TAGS, OR URLs in the text!
Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric
Back to top Profile PM Garage
mullemaus
Guest




 


Free account, no CAN development support

Post11-03-2005, 16:55    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

We have just installed an AJM engine. This engine was also very reluctant to turn at speeds above 3000 rpm. It ran smoothly and quietly, with the only noticeable issue being the poor starting behavior. Up to 3000 rpm, it had good performance, but above that, it ran very sluggishly and had poor performance. It also developed high pressure in the cooling system, which suggested a faulty cylinder head gasket. We then removed the head to replace it, and were actually quite surprised by the 'poor' condition of the head. We found burn marks and piston damage. With 99% certainty, we know that the previous owner was a fan of heating oil. We removed the pull rods and intended to reassemble the head, but the pump-nozzle elements caught our attention. However, see for yourself:

http://www.
" color="red">Bitte keine Links zu externen Dateihostern! a) nerven die zusätzlich notwendigen Klicks, b) Wartezeit, Werbebanner/Werbepopups und notwendige Registrierungen, c) ist nach einiger Zeit die Datei weg und das Thema für andere Leser nutzlos!

Bitte nutze 'Attachment hinzufügen' bzw. das Upload Forum hier.

/images/050311/temp/T7f32Xuz.jpghttp://www.
" color="red">Bitte keine Links zu externen Dateihostern! a) nerven die zusätzlich notwendigen Klicks, b) Wartezeit, Werbebanner/Werbepopups und notwendige Registrierungen, c) ist nach einiger Zeit die Datei weg und das Thema für andere Leser nutzlos!

Bitte nutze 'Attachment hinzufügen' bzw. das Upload Forum hier.

/images/050311/temp/62pmoqz9.jpg

Three out of four of the pump-nozzle elements fall apart when the pull rods are removed. The ball bearings on the three faulty nozzles also look very worn. The loss of power or reluctance to turn was caused by this 'damage'. While it doesn't directly relate to the specific issue of the reluctant engine, it may be a useful note.

WARNING: Do not change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!


Last edited on 20-03-2005, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
Back to top
ulf
Profi-Schrauber
Profi-Schrauber


Forum member since: 13.04.2002
Posts: 11058
Karma: +18 / -0   Thank you, like!
Location: Saarland
2023 MG ZS
Premium Support

Post11-03-2005, 17:23    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

mullemaus wrote:
3 out of 4 of the pump nozzle elements fall apart when the lever is removed. The ball studs from the 3 faulty nozzles also look very jammed. The power loss or unwillingness to turn came from this "damage" in this engine.


Hmm, is it known if the engine may have ingested "non-PD oil"?
That could potentially lead to such damage...

WARNING: Do NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Gruß Ulf
_________

MG4 Electric
Back to top Profile PM Garage
mullemaus
Guest




 


Free account, no CAN development support

Post12-03-2005, 10:41    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

Regarding the fuel oil, we are confident that it is the correct type, and whoever uses such fuel has likely also used an unsuitable type. icon_rolleyes.gif We don't know for sure if it was incorrect. However, we have refilled the engine according to the original specifications. :)

ATTENTION: Do NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text!
Back to top
mullemaus
Guest




 


Free account, no CAN development support

Post20-03-2005, 15:19    Title: Re: Possible addition values with cause? ATTENTION: DO NOT change any HTML tags, BBCode tags, or URLs in the text! Quote

Vehicle: Golf 4 TDI-GTi with AJM engine and 115 horsepower, mileage approximately 182,000 km

Symptoms: Reluctance to start and lack of power (subjective), slightly worse starting behavior when the engine is warm (significantly worse)

We removed the valve cover and visually inspected the PD elements. No damage was detected. We then brought the individual elements to the adjustment position (base position for adjustment) and adjusted them accordingly. (short instruction: Lowest position, push the ball pin to the end and then back out by 225° and tighten the counter nut - according to the repair manual)

Result: Smoother running, all values within the range of 0.0 to 0.2, improved warm start, and the ability to reach top speed again, as well as improved engine rotation.

ATTENTION: DO NOT MODIFY ANY HTML TAGS, BBCODE TAGS, OR URLs IN THE TEXT!
Back to top
New Topic Reply 🔗 🖨 Dieselschrauber - Overview » Diesel Engine Technology
Go to page: Previous  1, 2, 3
Similar articles and topics
Topic Forum
No new posts VTG Verstellung an VAG TDI Motoren Fachartikel
No new posts DIY-Ruckelabhilfe bei Motoren mit VP 37 Fehlersuche & Anleitungen
No new posts Maße und Verschleißgrenzen von VAG Motoren Technische Daten
No new posts Standheizung bei PD-Motoren Diesel Motorentechnik
No new posts Zahnriemenwechsel bei T3 Motoren KY, CS, JX Diesel Motorentechnik
No new posts Passat 3C TDI Motoren Diesel Motorentechnik
No new posts Kurbelwellenschraube der TDI Motoren Diesel Motorentechnik
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.