Raptor Oil Drivers Still Active?

Hi there,

In some of the older posts, there are people who also support a 'PD with Pöl.'
Are the engines still running? What changes have you made?
I would appreciate hearing about your experiences.

We have only experience with TDI and pre-combustion chamber engines so far.

Best regards, Rodion.

I've reduced the operation to shorter distances because frequent cold starts are not good for the oil quality and the injectors. Clogged injectors can easily lead to further damage, which I don't want to deal with.

http://www.lupo3lclub.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1956

You can also find a reasonably competent discussion of the topic of PD and rapeseed oil in the link above. There's also a study posted there that is very interesting to read.
In the latest generation of PD devices, it appears that PÖL can sometimes cause defects in the PD elements, leading to a fail-safe mode activation.
Given that, I personally wouldn't recommend using a PÖL (presumably referring to a specific type of fuel or additive) ratio exceeding 20% in current PD (likely referring to a particular engine or system). And at that point, it probably doesn't make economic sense anymore.

Regards,

Olaf.

P.S.
Also, take a look here: https://community.dieselschrauber.org/en/viewtopic.php?t=9875

Hello Rodion.

I received your email, but I currently have limited time.
A description of my renovation has already been posted on this forum several times.
I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a translation without the text you would like me to translate. Please provide the German text that you want translated into English.
http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/detail.php?id=1011


Yes, the issue with my car is a bit complicated; I still have that error message.

Nobody can really help me either.

Next, I'm going to take a closer look at the tandem pump on the cylinder head; perhaps it's not providing the required pressure for the fuel oil, while it is for the diesel? It's worth trying.

I installed a pre-pump booster pump the other day, but it didn't improve anything; I'm still experiencing the same problem.

I once read about a sensor that is supposed to measure the pressure going to the PDEs, but I haven't found anything about it in my documentation. Maybe someone here knows more about it.

It would work perfectly fine without that incorrect entry. I haven't made any entries into the "Möl" at all. It's just that this darn electronics somehow detects that something else is in the line .

Maybe someone else has an idea.

Best regards, Michi3.

I also run my Leon TDI 110kW with a 50% biofuel blend... currently, I'm not experiencing any problems. I haven't made any modifications to the car, and those €2000 just don't seem worth it.

VMax = 230 km/h according to the speedometer... The fuel consumption has remained around 7 liters .

I find the idea of a PD system without two fuel tanks problematic! With a warm engine, diesel naturally reaches the injectors at around 150 degrees Celsius, so it might work without preheating in that case, but the injectors would likely wear out relatively quickly during cold starts.
Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will then give you only the translation, without any explanations.

hello english

I can't entirely agree with that!

Assuming a water temperature of approximately 80-90 degrees Celsius, how can the oil reach 150 degrees Celsius in a water-cooled cylinder head? If no other modifications are made, running with an open return system will circulate a large amount of oil.
"During normal driving on country roads, the return temperature is approximately 60 degrees Celsius. At higher engine speeds (speed on the highway), it can also reach 100 degrees Celsius."
The cylinder head already experiences a certain temperature increase, but in my opinion, the main temperature rise occurs within the pump-injector (PDE). I don't need to explain what happens inside the PDE when performing a cold start with fuel injection.
Okay, my recommendation is to only use KGR (presumably a specific product or system) and perform a fuel tank conversion for DI (direct injection) engines. This way, you'll also avoid any issues with oil contamination.

Best regards, Michi3.

@ michi3

By feeding the diesel fuel through the diesel channel from the external pump across the cylinder head to the common rail injectors, the fuel is heated to approximately 150 degrees Celsius.

A specialist from the Audi training center in Ingolstadt told me that, and I believe him.

If you look at the head in a disassembled state, it becomes believable that the PD elements are located right in the middle, between the valves, valve actuation mechanism, glow plugs, just a few centimeters from the combustion chamber, but several centimeters away from the next water channel. Across from the PD elements, where the channel runs, as mentioned before, are the valves, valve actuation mechanism, and glow plugs, so there is no water channel there.
Looking at the temperature difference of approximately 300 degrees Celsius at the edge of the combustion chamber (and even more, as the valves sometimes glow red at maximum power), and about 120 degrees Celsius directly within the water channel, with the diesel channel in the middle, it easily reaches that 150-degree mark.
The PDEs are located even closer to the combustion chamber.

And we agree about the 2T conversion!

Please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will then give you only the translation, without any explanations.

...
Looking at the temperature difference of approximately 300 degrees Celsius at the edge of the combustion chamber (and even more, as the valves sometimes glow red at maximum power), and about 120 degrees Celsius directly within the water channel, with the diesel channel in the middle, it's easy to see how that 150-degree difference can be achieved.
...

That's exactly right. You shouldn't think of a cylinder head as a homogeneous, solid 'block.'

hello English, Göttmann.

It would be interesting to have a temperature sensor directly in front of the PDE (possibly referring to a plasma discharge element).
How is it then that the return fuel only has a temperature of 80 degrees?
If what you're writing is correct, then a coolant heat regulator (KGR) wouldn't be necessary in vehicles with particulate filters (PD), and it might even be detrimental if fuel is already being supplied at temperatures of 80-90 degrees Celsius.
Perhaps this is also due to an error message I have in the system (rule limit exceeded).
That would mean I've modified it too much.

As you know, more isn't always better.

It's really interesting. I'll definitely try running the system with an open return and also temporarily shut down (throttle) the heat exchanger in the next few days to see what happens.
If the error doesn't occur again after that, I'll know what caused it, and it will have been worth trying.
I will, of course, inform you as soon as I have completed the first extended test drive.

my little worry child: http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/detail.php?id=1011

Best regards, Michi3.

...
It would be interesting to have a temperature sensor directly in front of the PDE (possibly referring to a plasma discharge element).
How is it then that the return fuel only has a temperature of 80 degrees?
If what you're writing is correct, then a coolant heat regulator (KGR) wouldn't be necessary in vehicles with particulate filters (PD), and it might even be detrimental if fuel is already being supplied at temperatures of 80-90 degrees Celsius.
Perhaps this is also due to an error message I have in the system (rule limit exceeded).
That would mean I've modified it too much.


'Please obtain the SSP209 manual and carefully read the section on fuel supply (pages 18-25). Then you will understand why the fuel return temperature is lower than at the common rail injectors.'

Why do you always consider the KGR (Key Group Ratio) as a non-plus-ultra metric?
When using a pressure differential (PD) system, you disrupt the normal pressure and temperature conditions.
And then you wonder about glitches or incorrect entries?


Let's start with the central committee.
The distribution pipe!
'There, the fuel is forced in by the tandem pump and made available to the positive displacement (PD) elements. The fuel pushed back by the PD elements is mixed with fresh fuel through a special pipe structure and a sophisticated system of bores from the tandem pump, thereby cooling it so that all cylinders have approximately the same temperature. This is important to ensure the engine runs smoothly. If this doesn't work, cylinder 1 will receive fuel that is too warm, while cylinder 4 will receive fuel that is too cold. Anyone can imagine what that means.'
The tandem pump!
There is a kind of filter there. Its purpose is to trap air bubbles and direct them, via a throttle bore, back into the return line. However, a small amount of (cold) supply fuel is also forced through it. This explains the low return temperature behind the tandem pump.

I find the idea of a common rail (PD) system without a pre-heating stage problematic! When the engine is warm, diesel naturally reaches the injectors at around 150 degrees Celsius, so it might work without pre-heating in that case, but during cold starts, the injectors will likely wear out relatively quickly.
engl

'That's why I only use a 50% fuel-oil mixture, and also, the engine doesn't really need to be run at full throttle for the first few kilometers.'

Why do you think there should be increased wear on the pressure die elements? The lubrication of the mixture should be sufficient if the speed isn't as high as 4000 RPM.

Hello,

goettmann wrote:

Why do you police officers always consider the KGR (criminal investigation department) to be completely useless and incompetent?

"I can tell you this: The fuel line is often too narrow to allow sufficient fuel to be consistently drawn from the tank to the front of the vehicle. That's why it makes sense to use a wider diameter fuel line. However, some people are too lazy or, for reasons I don't understand, reluctant to do so. A catch-can system can also address the issue of insufficient fuel supply, but it introduces other problems..."

Quote:

When using a pressure differential (PD) system, you disrupt the printing and temperature conditions. And then you wonder about glitches or incorrect entries?

Another reason to get rid of this nonsense. It already causes enough trouble with mechanical systems.

Best regards, Uli (without any official title).

...
Using a ketogenic diet can help overcome the problem of nutrient deficiencies, but it also introduces other problems.
...another reason to get rid of this nonsense. It already causes enough trouble with mechanical systems.


It's great that there are more people who agree with me about that .

The problem is quite simple: it's the 'where' that's difficult.

Where does the return flow go in a two-tank system?

So, you short-circuit the fuel pump relay (RL). It would be better to also switch the RL, but how and when? Once that's done, it becomes very difficult to prevent gasoline (PÖL) from entering the diesel tank (D) and diesel from entering the gasoline tank.
Therefore, admittedly, a KGR (Kühlergrillrost) is a simple solution and also works well with older diesel engines that sometimes allow air to pass through the ESD (elektronische Servolenkung).

But how should we approach that with a TDI, in your opinion?

He no longer uses it (because it doesn't offer enough value compared to the cost), but he is still interested in the topic.

Hello,

A little food for thought for all those using alternative fuel heaters:

According to Bosch, no biodiesel currently available on the market meets the required standards and is therefore not approved for use, as its insufficient lubricating properties can cause damage to the common rail injectors. What happens with other types of fuel is a matter of experience, but I believe that using them would also likely lead to problems.

'If you want to try it, go ahead, but I'm not convinced. I'll just stick to using synthetic oil from now on; that way, it will lubricate and protect the engine properly.'

Best regards,
Markus.

Hello,
I sometimes buy gasoline from Aldi myself, and I've filled up with a maximum of 30% so far.
I found a report comparing diesel-petrol mixtures (25% and 50%) with 100% diesel operation after each running for 300 hours (the engines were disassembled).

"Regarding a research project involving engine testing with mixtures of diesel and vegetable oil."
Sure, please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English. I will only provide the translation without any explanations.
http://www.fnr-server.de/cms35/fileadmin/biz/pdf/aktuelles/Schlussbericht-Motorprueflauf.pdf

Best regards, Jürgen.