High beam on -> Fog lights off?

Hello!

I recently learned that the fog lights must turn off when the high beam or low beam is activated. This is because the fog light relay receives ground through terminal 56a (high beam). Therefore, if high beam is on -> no ground -> fog lights off.
Now, however, the situation is such that many new cars can simultaneously turn on both low beams and high beams.
Therefore, I am looking for a legal excerpt or similar document that documents how this was or is regulated. If it has been changed, please also include the date.

thank you for the effort, already...

Hi,

unfortunately, I can't directly help you... but just to let you know that it works perfectly with my 2001 Ibiza. With spotlights, floodlights, and recessed lights, you have 6x55 watts active... I've only done this in practice so far to test the bulbs, without having to run back and forth.

I suspect the rule was scrapped because it was deemed pointless. After all, if you have your high beams on, who are you supposed to be blinding with your fog lights?

Best regards,

Jan

Thank you very much.
that it applies to many manufacturers, I understand.
I'm just looking for a specific excerpt from the STV(Z)O or similar document that regulates this, but unfortunately I can't find anything in the current STVO. I just can't imagine that the exam supervisors are still giving out (legally outdated or false) tasks today.
I will, however, review this again tomorrow and provide feedback.

Schraubi-Schlumpf wrote:

Unfortunately, I can't find anything in the current traffic regulations. ...

So, I've been driving cars for over 20 years, and I've also been tinkering with them for just as long, but even back then, this "regulation" was already outdated.
I'm unfortunately unable to recall the exact details, but I believe it was a recommendation to avoid overloading the LiMa. After all, it consumes around 110W (~9A). In a 1er Golf, a 35 or 45A LiMA was installed, which is already extremely high at 9A.

There is still a regulation in the StVZO (German Road Traffic Act) regarding the number of forward-facing lights. There should be 6, but only 4 can be burning at the same time.
With dual headlights, where both low beam and high beam can illuminate simultaneously, the fog lights must therefore be switched off. That must be the key to your problem.

okay... the information about a maximum of 4 bright spotlights is currently my current understanding... however, the foreman also didn't know immediately... well, actually, I had initially asked him about the maximum number of bright spotlights... he wanted to find out more...

Hi,

Quote:

There is still a regulation in the StVZO (German Road Traffic Act) regarding the number of forward-facing lights. There should be 6, but only 4 can be burning at the same time. With dual headlights, where both low beam and high beam can illuminate simultaneously, the fog lights must therefore be switched off. That must be the key to your problem.

Hmm... either this doesn't apply in the Netherlands, or the people at Seat haven't read it.

I am quite sure that I had all 6 lights on during the last light test... so the bifocal headlights with both (separate) lamps on, and in addition the two fog lights.

Best regards,

Jan

Jan6K wrote:

Hmm... either this doesn't apply in the Netherlands, or the people at Seat haven't read it.

It is possible. Only for D-level certification would he have needed to be upgraded...

Quote:

I am quite sure that I had all 6 lights on during the last light test... so the bifocal headlights with both (separate) lamps on, and in addition the two fog lights.

... your headlights are not considered dual headlights. Therefore, although six filaments are lit, only four lamps are actually working. It's a matter of interpretation.

On my Passat 3BG, manufactured in 2003, the headlights remain on even when the main beam is activated.

Why are there so many differences ? It's a German-made vehicle and not a re-import. Therefore, I won't assume that there's a different lighting system for EU countries.

Bertil wrote:

... your headlights are not considered dual headlights. Therefore, although six bulbs are lit, only four lamps are actually functioning. It's a matter of interpretation.

Hi Bertil,

then the Polo 9N is probably one step further developed.
Although large and small spotlights are housed together in a common casing, they are separated from each other by a bar in front for the viewer, appearing as 2 separate units.

Exterior: Daytime running lights, interior: Headlights (low beam and high beam), and below: Parking lights -> With my full-size 6-meter Christmas tree, it's a genuine import, not a re-import.

ulf wrote:

.... ... Headlights (outside), interior side and main lights, and bottom NSW -> I have a full-size 6-foot Christmas tree, and it's not a re-import.

It is my understanding that when it comes to initial equipment, nobody really cares. When the Jetta is checked (whether it's for a TÜV inspection or by law enforcement), it is always verified that a maximum of 4 bulbs are lit (both NSW and FSW retrofits).
Incidentally, it is still possible to use a nearly full Christmas tree -> auxiliary light. This would mean using 6 halogen bulbs on the Jetta (H4 main headlights... both bulbs + FSW). However, from an energy consumption perspective, this is not advisable for this car (Only for motorsport purposes: 2*100W+2*150W+2*55W=610W -> ~50A) The standard 45A alternator would already be significantly overloaded with my Christmas tree. Fortunately, my alternator is from an Audi 100 and delivers 90A.


I just checked.
In the current edition of the StVZO, I was also unable to find the old entry with the 4 lamps. It is possible that the entire project has been abandoned due to various EU regulations.

I will ask about this during the next TÜV appointment with my Jetta and find out why it is checked and where this regulation can be found.

Hi,

@Bertil: You're really putting the "only doing your duty" argument in a tough spot It would be interesting if you also asked about the rules when "putting your head behind the wheel". Everyone is trying to get a piece of the pie, but it's not always them who are actually creating the mess or coming up with the ideas.

Greetings
Micha

"Although I haven't yet found a definitive answer, it seems increasingly likely that the case hinges on interpretation."
In addition to the headlight construction type, it is also likely that if the manufacturer declares the auxiliary lights as "auxiliary headlights," completely different rules apply.
others say that the responsibility has been placed in the hands of the driver. This means: one can design it this way, but the user should not be able to activate them simultaneously... but there is also not much information about this...
research in progress...

The problem is that, increasingly, national and EU law apply simultaneously (harmonization), and that this means the legal situation is not always clear (e.g., depending on the vehicle's operating permit, whether it is EU or national).

Here is the legal text (Road Traffic Act)

Headlights. Only the prescribed and those specified in the vehicle registration document may be fitted to motor vehicles and their trailers (§ 49 a para. 1 sentence 1). According to § 50 para. 2 sentence 1, motor vehicles with two headlights facing forward must be equipped with them; however, according to § 50 para. 4, special headlights may be present for the main beam and the dipped beam.
These special headlights must be designed so that the auxiliary lights can also be lit up when using long-range lighting (paragraph 50, subsection 4, second half-sentence) or that the long-range lighting can also be emitted (paragraph 4 of the 6th). Exception Regulation to the Road Traffic Act (StVZO).
Therefore, a vehicle may have a total of 4 headlights according to the above-mentioned conditions, as specified in § 50.

According to Regulation (EC) No 76/756/EEC or ECE-R 48, vehicles may be equipped with 2 or 4 (in certain cases, up to 2 additional) headlights for long-distance lighting and 2 headlights for low-beam lighting. All these headlights must be of an approved design (§ 22a, paragraph 1, item 7) and bear the officially required and assigned approval mark (§ 22a, paragraph 2). As additional headlights, only the fog lights and searchlights specified in § 52 are permitted (in certain cases, also work lights).
The fog lights are also subject to approval according to type (§ 22a para. 1 no. 10). Subsequently, the following may be present in vehicles, taking into account the types of headlights: a) Headlights for main and auxiliary lights, b) Special headlights for main lights, c) Special headlights for auxiliary lights.
– 2 Headlights for High and Low Beams or
– 2 headlights for long and low beam, and 2 headlights for long beam only
– 2 headlights for high beam and 2 headlights for low beam or
– 4 headlights for long-range lighting and 2 headlights for low-beam lighting; and under certain conditions, 2 additional headlights for long-range lighting (see Explanatory Note 2 to § 49a).
Furthermore, two fog lights may be fitted. Also, the installation of a spotlight with a power consumption not exceeding 35 W, which must also be able to be switched on simultaneously with the indicator lights and the license plate light, is permitted.
Without considering the fog lights and the searchlight, headlights may be used when operating the long-range lights.
– 2 Headlights for high beam or
– 4 Headlights for high beams or
– 2 headlights for high beam and 2 headlights for low beam or
– 4 headlights for high beam and 2 headlights for low beam.
Will be switched back to low beam, then all high beam headlights must turn off simultaneously.

...without considering the fog lights... means they can illuminate or not. That is, the last case plus 2 fog lights are technically and legally possible.

As I said, there are options. Whether it makes sense to drive with 4 headlights in fog remains to be seen.

Ugh!!

huge thanks, first of all, Cetano! I'll read this through again in a quiet setting tomorrow
that you also took the time to include the relevant paragraphs and guidelines... great!
gone. of the meaning...
"Today's and previous apprentices, it has been learned that simultaneous use is not allowed... therefore, it has been incorrectly taught for a long time."
and since even the senior managers couldn't provide me with an answer, I am all the more pleased when I can "teach" them something

Thank you again very much!

*edit* -> a definite "karma-plus" for the effort!

In Austria, it is now definitely allowed to drive around the clock with complete Christmas tree lighting, regardless of the conditions . Thank you, Mr. Minister...

No, isn't that right!
According to ÖAMTC, there are precise guidelines.