Ford Galaxy: Weak Performance Troubleshooting

Hello everyone,

I need some help with arguing with Ford.

Subject:
For work, I have a Ford Galaxy with a 96kW PD engine. For some time now, the car has been lacking power, which is noticeable by the maximum speed indicated on the speedometer. Originally, the maximum speed was over 200 km/h, but it is now only 180 km/h.

Since this is a leased vehicle, the troubleshooting and repair must be carried out by the workshop.

Current status:
- No errors in the error memory.
- New LMM.
- A PD injector was replaced on cylinder 1 3000 km ago.
- Turbocharger replaced less than 20,000 km ago.

Current mileage: 151,000 km. First registration: 06/2004.

After the WS (presumably a piece of equipment) was unable to proceed further, a performance diagram was created on an LPS002 today - see attachment.

According to the diagram, the vehicle has its full engine power, a maximum of 98 kW. However, the maximum speed is only 180 km/h - this has also been determined and confirmed by the Ford workshop.
Data in the chart, back side:
p(gem) = 96 kW
Nominal speed of 4000 RPM corresponds to 162 km/h.
Barometric pressure is 1026.
Intake air temperature is 8°C.
P(norm) = 94 kW

Can anyone here offer advice or help me interpret this performance graph? Unfortunately, I lack the means to compare it to other data.
Are the 30kW losses in the powertrain normal?

The mechanics (transmission/drive shafts/brakes) were checked by the workshop, and no issues were found. The maximum speed is 180 km/h both with and without the climate control system activated.

Thank you in advance.

Dieter.

Okay, so first of all, a 30kW loss in the powertrain is rather unusual to impossible. Just imagine what would have to happen for that to occur. Normally, losses in a vehicle are due to friction, which would then have to generate heat. That would mean you'd have a very hot transmission.
Before performing a performance test, it's usually a good idea to collect all the vehicle's data. What exact values is the mass airflow sensor (MAF) providing? What is the boost pressure? What is the condition of the diesel filter and the air filter? Did the problem occur after a maintenance procedure (e.g., timing belt replacement) or after the described common rail injector replacement? Just to be silly, are you perhaps using oversized winter tires? Is there a leak in the charge air system? Is the EGR valve functioning correctly?

A performance graph like that is a nice thing. If the measurement is correct, taken in the right gear, and the test report was created by someone who has done this before, then it's valuable. Personally, I can't assess whether your graph is right or wrong because I lack experience with it.

The Galaxy is supposed to have a top speed of around 188 km/h, if I'm correct. That would mean approximately 195 km/h according to the speedometer. However, it also depends on the route and other factors. So, there are many questions and a lot of unknowns.

Hmm. So, first of all, a 30kW loss in the powertrain is rather unusual to impossible. Imagine what would have to happen to cause that. Normally, loss in a vehicle is due to friction, which would then lead to heat. That would mean you would have a very hot transmission.

'There are already losses in the powertrain – the power is measured at the clutch, after all... I'm just missing the comparison to see what's typical. Those 30 kW also seem a bit high to me.'


Before performing a performance test, it's common practice to first gather all the vehicle's measurement data. What exact values does the mass airflow sensor (MAF) provide? What is the boost pressure? What is the condition of the diesel filter and the air filter? Did the problem occur after a maintenance procedure (e.g., timing belt replacement) or after the replacement of the described common rail injector (PDE)?


The power loss has been gradual. I experienced significant problems with the air conditioning system during the summer, and this issue started around that time. After replacing the turbocharger in October, the power returned for about a week (4000 km)...
The performance was equally poor both before and after the PDE change.
The problem with the measurements is that I'm not allowed to do anything to the car myself, as it's a leased vehicle with a full-service contract. Therefore, I'm completely dependent on the workshop...


'Just a silly question, are you perhaps using oversized winter tires? Is there a leak in the intercooler system? Is the AGR (exhaust gas recirculation) working correctly?'

Winter tires in the standard size 195.


A performance graph like that is a nice thing. If the measurement is correct, taken in the right gear, and the test report was created by someone who has done this before, then it's valuable. Personally, I can't assess whether your graph is right or wrong because I lack experience with it.

My main point is this: To what extent is the performance chart reliable? It was created at what is essentially the largest Bosch service center in the area, and since it's also the only place in the area with a dynamometer, I assume they have reasonably competent staff there.

}
The Galaxy is supposed to have a top speed of approximately 188 km/h, if I'm correct. That would mean it should reach around 195 km/h according to the speedometer. However, it also depends on the route, etc. So, there are many questions and many unknowns.}

'The 180 km/h speed was achieved on a flat surface, without a headwind, and with a normal load. It's already clear that I don't reach the full speed when going uphill or with a headwind.'

So, who here is familiar with performance charts?

Dieter.

Hi,

The sheet was inserted incorrectly, and the performance curve starts at approximately -8 kW. This means the traction power is about 22 kW, which is within the normal range. However, everything is fine because the total power remains at 98 kW.

Fuel venting is okay, so that even with prolonged full throttle, there's still enough fuel reaching the engine?
Are the rear wheels spinning freely?

Best regards, Rainer.

Rear wheels are free. I had an inspection a week ago, and the front and rear brakes were done then - I assume that would have been noticed. Also, I believe that if something had been stiff for a few months, it would have already 'broken completely' - I drive 7000-10000 km per month...

Fuel vent: Good point, I'll have it checked.

Dieter.

You can check this yourself without jeopardizing your lease agreement. Simply loosen the fuel filler cap and then drive. Perhaps not when the tank is completely full... and only for checking. As far as I know, accessing the error memory and logging measurement data also do not affect a lease agreement in any way.

Following a suggestion from Matthias, I read out the data.

The following values were obtained:
According to the software, the maximum speed is 180 km/h at 3612 RPM. The speedometer indicates 190 km/h, but this is while going downhill!

Measurements at idle:
deviating from the nominal values.
Block 3, Field 3, air mass is: 436, target value 210-350.

What else I've noticed is:
Block 13 jogging speed controller.
Cylinder 1, 0.25.
Zyl 2.3 012-014
Cylinder 4 -0.45
Target values from -2.8 to +2.8.

I have been able to measure fuel injection volume and torque limitation so far -> OK, then the laptop battery ran out.

I don't have much experience with data interpretation myself. Can anyone help me out?

PS: I haven't been able to check the fuel vent yet, the car is completely full.

Thank you - Dieter.

dieterpapa wrote:

Measurements at idle: deviating from the nominal values. Block 3, Field 3, air mass is: 436, target value 210-350

target value 210-350 probably comes from a label file and only provides a rough indication.

The key is the comparison between the current target and actual values, which are fields 2 and 3:
If there's a consistent and significant deviation from the normal range in the EGR system, something is wrong with the EGR valve... it could be defective and/or stuck.
It may then also not function correctly under full load (sometimes) -> potential loss of power.

Quote:

Block 13 jogging regulator. Cylinder 1, 0.25. Zyl 2.3 012-014 Cylinder 4 -0.45 Target values from -2.8 to +2.8

. That still looks harmless.

Does he have enough fuel?

Here's the translation:

"Out of curiosity, I have a question for the experts. Is it normal for the torque curve to be so wavy in the maximum range?"

Shouldn't all four PD elements always be replaced at the same time? And how long do they actually last?

Regards, Peter.

@ulf:
The data comes from the setpoint list available in this forum.
Actual data from today:
Air mass should be: 290.
Air mass: 436

@Peter
I haven't heard from you in a long time .

Dieter.

AGR????

@Dieterpapa

It's been a loooooooooong time .

AGR????



But why does that piece of junk then show full power on the test bench????

Ford is now referring to the test bench diagram.

Dieter.

Well, I guess we'll have to wait for a comment from the real experts.

Regards, Peter.

Does he get enough fuel???

Here's the translation:

'Out of curiosity, I have a question for the experts. Is it normal for the torque curve to be so wavy in the maximum range?'


It's a power curve, not a torque diagram, but it could be calculated backwards.
What I notice is that the engine achieves a high power output quite quickly, but then this power remains relatively constant for a long time before increasing again at the very end. A rising power curve would normally be much better for acceleration. Typical power curves for 130cc engines look different. However, I don't know what kind of fuel map Ford has programmed. But I doubt you'll have any chance with Ford using a diagram like this, because first, it confirms that the engine is producing its power, and second, these dynamometers don't really provide accurate information about how precisely or correctly the power was measured.
- Accurate information is only available with a dynamometer - i.e., the engine must be removed. Even then, there's a risk of getting inaccurate results, as the saying goes: 'If you measure, you're measuring something.'

Ford and VW PD engines. It's easy to get stuck in a cycle of repairs with these. It's suspicious that after the turbo replacement, it might have had its original performance for a week. They should try installing a new AGR valve and check the hoses and connections. It's much cheaper than replacing turbos and PD components just based on suspicion. Maybe try putting a piece of metal in the exhaust to test something over the weekend... A rodent damage to the hoses is also a possibility.

Best regards,
Christian.

Hello Chris,

However, there is the following problem:

- The car is still under warranty.
- The workshop only works on vehicles if Ford pays for it.
- It's also not possible to do it yourself, as it's a leased car.

Dieter.