TDI Injector Upgrade: 150HP to 180HP Conversion

Hello everyone .

The needle lift solenoid in my Audi Allroad AKE (built in 2001) is defective.
Short circuit detected.
The online auction site has plenty of injectors available for the 150 horsepower version, but not for mine.
The AKE version has 180 horsepower, and the new one costs 450 euros.
I thought that they should be structurally similar and differ only in the DÖD (presumably a specific component) and the nose cone.
Could it be possible to achieve this by modifying the nozzle and adjusting the diesel injection timing (DÖD)?
How can I adapt the ESD to my engine?
What disadvantages could such an adaptation have?

Thank you in advance .

As far as I remember, Rainer once wrote something suggesting that it's not possible to do something without cutting corners.

But unfortunately, I no longer remember the exact term – it might have been something related to public administration or similar.

Best regards, Alex.

Hi,

There are different designs for nozzle holders; while they may look the same externally and be interchangeable, the nozzles and internal components are different.
It's hard to say off the top of your head what goes together here.

You can only be sure that the part is compatible if you use parts with identical part numbers.

Best regards, Rainer.

Thank you!

I think you're right.
Perhaps I can save 200 euros on the nozzle and then I can buy a...
buy a new engine
It's better to be safe than sorry.

The 150hp engine had 5-hole injectors, while the 180hp versions had 6-hole injectors . It works, but it smokes like an old diesel when idling. No one knows how the spray pattern interacts with the pistons. }

Thanks, Mulle, I already knew that. The AKE has larger piston bowls than the 150 PS TDI and higher injection pressure. Combined with a 5-hole injector, this is likely to cause engine damage.
That's why I wanted to replace the dust filter.
However, it's now becoming obsolete because I found a suitable nozzle.

Hello Mulle!

Are you sure that all 180 hp V6 TDI engines have the 6-hole injectors, or only the Euro-4 versions?
I just received the injector set, and according to the part number, they are supposed to fit my AKE engine. And these are 5-hole injectors.
Nozzle part number with NHG: 059 130 202 E.
I believe that the upgrade to the Euro-4 standard was what made the six-hole nozzles necessary.

Quote:

I just received the nozzle set, which, according to the part number, is supposed to fit my AKE

.
Something like that.

Here's a translation of the German text:

"A small tip: what is advertised and what it actually contains can be different. Also, the number of holes is not the only criterion for determining the possible injection volume."
The best way is to disassemble it, damage the sealing surfaces in the process, and then complain about it.

Best regards, Rainer.

Well, basically, I neither intended to make a complaint nor to break anything.
I believe that it would be interesting for a forum to establish certain standards and record facts.
According to my records, the 6-hole injectors were only introduced with the upgrade to Euro-4 standards. This was accompanied by other modifications such as roller rocker arms, a water-cooled EGR system, a throttle body, and an increase in fuel injection pressure from 1800 to 2000 bar, etc.
These were the BAU and BCZ engines (180 and 163 hp), with respective versions in the Allroad models only meeting Euro-3 emissions standards (for some reason).
Of course, there could always be something else inside, depending on what the previous owner did with it.

According to the special edition "10 Years of TDI" from MTZ, even the first engine with 180 hp already had 6-hole injectors.
The Euro3 emissions standard for the Allroad is due to a combination of factors, including translation and/or weight. Even the standard A6, with Quattro all-wheel drive and an automatic transmission, only achieves Euro3 emissions.
Bcz and Bau engines have nozzles with designations F, BDG+BDH (Euro4 compatible), which use fuel type G.
I also have an "E" nozzle at home; I can count the holes if you like. This nozzle is indeed different from the others in its design; all the springs can be removed, which isn't possible with the other nozzles. If I remember correctly, the needle in the "E" nozzle is also operated off-center.
As far as I know, the injection angle remains constant, so replacing a complete set of injectors shouldn't cause significant issues. I would never replace a single injector, not even with the same type, let alone a different one. If the opening pressures are different, the engine will never run perfectly.

Hello Christians!

It would be nice if you could count the holes for me .
Regarding the nozzle exchange, I definitely want to use nozzles with NHG markings for the initial prints.
check and the three fuel injectors on the right cylinder bank, as well as their spray pattern.
According to the Audi repair history, the catalytic converters were replaced 40,000 km ago during an engine overhaul.

Okay, I found the nozzle: It has 5 holes, somehow related to the MTZ post. My old 201a nozzles from AKN also have a central actuation of the nozzle needle, just like the new ones. The fact that the nozzle needle is double-mounted, unlike the E version, might be an improvement in the replacement part because the nozzles themselves were replaced at some point. Of course, my E-nozzle could also be damaged: I took two and made one, and mounted the remaining parts, then listed it on eBay...
That would be quite a coincidence.

Thank you very much, Christians!
Now I am a little bit relieved .
But I'll get a better idea when I exchange them.
I already installed the NHG (presumably a device or accessory) on the car today, and at least no error codes were generated.
Regarding the engine overhaul, I only meant that the installed engines should still have their original DOED (German term for a specific type of component) after 40,000 km.
The purchased ESDs appear to be unused and unaltered.
What would now pique my curiosity is whether switching to 6-hole nozzles would...
It would offer a fuel efficiency advantage. In the Motor-Talk forum, there was someone who experimented by installing 6-hole injectors in their 150hp TDI engine and reported significant improvements in smoothness, fuel consumption, and power output.
But I'd rather not do that, mainly because Rainer reacts negatively to any kind of "Duesen" experiments .

I eventually bought and installed a new ESC with the exact part number.
The first thing I noticed was that the engine ran much more smoothly when it was idling.
The second thing was the exhaust smell, which now smells like a TDI engine. Before, it smelled weird, like burnt rubber or just gave you a headache .
In the partial load range and when there are short bursts of gas, it no longer sounds like a truck.
and it's noticeably more powerful in the higher RPM range.
Fuel consumption, according to the onboard computer, is approximately 0.5 liters less.

In my opinion, it paid off.