Why do R5 PD TDIs "clatter"?

Hi,

I've noticed that _all_ R5 PD TDI models are noisy.

On a low-line T5 Transporter, I could imagine that it's simply missing some dampening material, which explains the noise.

But even higher-spec T5 Multivans and Touaregs (which you can't accuse of being "cheap") also do this, and it's certainly not a case of cutting corners.

Why don't the R5 and R4 models tick and rattle, and the V10 even more so?

Then you have a T5 for 100,000 EUR (don't laugh, check out the price list for the Multivan Business), and it's noisier than a 300,000 km Golf with worn-out hydraulics...

Hello,

the R5s are a bit louder because they use spur gears instead of a timing belt.

Yes, that's definitely the reason. I've also come to that conclusion, as the noise decreases with increasing temperature, at least with one that I removed from the engine compartment of a T5 (I think it was 178 horsepower, well-equipped, I believe it was the Highline model).

Personally, I'm not against timing belt replacements, as I don't find them too burdensome... although it's an unproductive Saturday, I don't have them that often... However, I could live with the whining of the timing belt if you offered it to me in the Golf. I could definitely see myself using the AutoB-ild comments...

[quote="matthiasTDI96"]

Personally, I don't see a problem with timing belt replacements, as I find the process not too burdensome... while it's a less productive Saturday, it doesn't happen often for me...[/quote]
Hello!

I was originally very against timing belts, so I bought the VR 6 instead.
But when the chain tensioner was worn out after 140,000 km,
it wasn't just a wasted Saturday, but a completely ruined weekend. I was even relieved that I could get it working properly again...
The engine also made a lot of noise with the two chains.

Unfortunately, every mechanical power transmission causes noises, some more than others. This is simply a fact that one cannot ignore.

The only thing I personally find constructively and technically problematic with the PD engine in the Golf is the fact that the engine mount needs to be removed. If it weren't so (and the intake system on the other side...dream...), the replacement would be as quick and easy as with a Kadett gasoline engine.

Well,

The G3 doesn't have a motor mount or intake system, which is accommodated by the timing belt.
Even then, you can't just quickly replace the timing belt during a fuel stop.
However, the G4 has it really "well-designed".

I can't comment on rattling VR6 engines, I only knew one, and his timing belt broke shortly after 100,000 km. VW said: "Bad luck. Nothing more."

Yes... at the Autobahn parking, it worked on a Kadett... I experienced it myself (it's probably fate if you have the new belt in the trunk and the old one breaks...).

But honestly, if everything was free on a Golf, you would remove the wheel, the timing belt cover, the crankshaft stop, the tensioner... and you would be almost finished. That's not the best way to spend time, that's clear. I don't have a WSP that also wants the belt, which makes it much easier.

However, a chain-driven crankshaft would be a dream for me.

PS: Does the use of chain drives on the R5 and V10 TDI engines only allow them to use 50601 oil? Or do they also have different crankshaft-to-PDE power transmission?

[quote="dieselmartin"]Well,

As for the rattling VR6, I can only say that I only knew one, and his chain broke shortly after 100,000 miles. VW said it was just bad luck.
[/quote]
Hello!

What else should a VW workshop say about the VR6 engine?
The oil pump seems to be very generously sized, and the pressure limiting valve often doesn't function properly.
This results in the oil pressure often being much higher than the maximum 5.5 bar, sometimes up to 9 bar after starting.
Since the hydraulic tensioner for the upper chain is operated hydraulically, the problem is clear to me.
However, I have never heard of the rapid wear of the tensioner due to a broken chain...

Yes, the valve is running against an edge, which prevents the overpressure (actually sometimes over 10 bar) from being released. There is an oil pump that has been overhauled.

The problem with the VR was the old tensioner. The highest pressure (which only lasts for a short time) was saved (!!) and the cover was only riveted to the tensioner arm.

There is a new tensioner (likely copied from a Mercedes Vito) made of plastic (full) and a tensioner that is only supported by oil pressure. This new tensioner no longer stores any pressure and does not need to be bled.

If a chain is rattling (VR), you should not continue driving, otherwise it will be over soon.

That new vehicles are allowed to "rattle" is, in my opinion, not acceptable.

Hi,

I haven't noticed any rattling in the engine yet, and I haven't installed any dampeners either. My 1959 Eicher also uses camshaft drives with bevel gears, and there's no rattling in that case (although there's only one intermediate gear, as the camshaft is located below).

What is the drive solution like? Just simple bevel gears, or is there a rattling-preventing solution?

The fact that rattling can be eliminated even with small changes in load is clearly demonstrated by my (former) moped: The KX250 rattles without load, with a simple bevel gear between the camshaft and the clutch bell, while the Honda MBX80 doesn't rattle: the solution here was to place a smaller gear with one fewer tooth next to the camshaft gear, which...
[Assuming, I don't know anymore from memory]with a spring against the actual drive gear]
.
Worked perfectly: due to the friction between the two wheels, the play between the teeth was minimized.

Best regards, Rainer

Hi,

I don't think the R5 is making noise because of the wheel hubs yet.
That's because the V10 is very quiet.

Furthermore, there's the possibility and the know-how to interlock the wheels with two-piece hubs that don't rub against each other.

**Deductive Reasoning:** In a TDI gearbox, a significant distance needs to be covered (crankshaft - cam shaft).

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.volkswagen.com.hr/touareg/tehnika/pics/technik_mo_c5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.volkswagen.com.hr/touareg/tehnika/motori.htm&h=220&w=220&sz=18&hl=de&start=4&tbnid=zeXpuBBpEZ8miM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dr5%2Btdi%2Bmotor%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D

Sorry for the link :-)

I can see 7 gears in the visible area.

The large number of gears might be the source of the noise. It's not a clattering sound, but rather a more unusual mechanical running noise.

I would also like to ask again about the oil specification for the R5 and V10 engines, specifically 506.01 and not, for example, 507.00. Does anyone have any information on this? Thanks, haithamina

I could imagine that the thinner 506.01 would be prescribed because the mentioned engines otherwise barely meet EuroIV in the Touareg. Was there also a special permit, EuroIII as EuroIV?

@ christians,
hm, that could be.

@ all: I've also read that all engines that are compatible with the 506.01 oil have smaller clearances than those that require, for example, 505.01 or 507.00 oil. Is this correct? Does anyone know?

The 506.01 oil has a lower HTHS value </= 3 mPas. With a powerful V10, this could definitely get very hot and cause problems (wear). This is also likely to be the case for other R4 or R5 engines, especially with tuning and/or full load.
Are there any reports of increased wear or other issues with engines that use 506.01 oil? AD

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