Battery Case: Cost vs. Benefits?

Hello,

The documentation shows, for example, a (heat-insulating) protective cover for the battery of my Polo, which was missing from the factory, something I only realized too late.

Even the ALH-Ibiza belonging to my significant other came without such a protective cover from the factory.
The Seat database only specifies the cover for gasoline engines with air conditioning in warm climates.
The VW parts catalog for the Polo doesn't specify any restrictions, but for example, with the G4, it seems to be intended only for gasoline engines.

Therefore, can we assume that the casing primarily protects against water loss due to excessively high temperatures in the engine compartment, but offers little or no benefit in winter due to reduced nighttime cooling, resulting in a higher cold start current?

"13 euros per casing equals 26 euros for both cars, which is still 'a bit more than nothing,' but I don't want to spend money on something that seems useless."
Or does anyone know of any inexpensive acid-resistant materials that can provide similar insulation to the battery as the original casing?

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.
The G5 casing is also designed for diesel engines .

Therefore, can we assume that the casing is primarily intended to protect against water loss due to excessively high temperatures in the engine compartment, but offers little or no benefit in winter due to reduced nighttime cooling = higher cold start current?


Yes, it is designed to protect against excessively high temperatures.
But not only because of the water loss, but also to extend the battery life to an acceptable level.

Background:
A lead-acid battery is actually only designed for ambient temperatures up to a maximum of 65°C (149°F). If it is operated in environments with higher temperatures, its lifespan will decrease.

Since 65°C is almost cold for modern motorcycle engines, the battery needs to be protected.

Another reason why batteries are increasingly being placed in the trunk of vehicles with powerful engines.

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

Since 65°C is almost cold in modern motorcycle engines, the battery needs to be protected.

Ah yes: that's why the G5 (with its very modern engine compartment) also has a battery housing, even with "older" diesel engines.

According to that, I should probably buy another one of those for my Polo, especially if there are no restrictions on gasoline engines or suitability for warm climates?

Hello Ulf,

It's not a mistake.
Given the expected temperatures based on your vehicle's location according to the UTM coordinates, it is unlikely that those temperatures will be reached.
It only becomes interesting when you try to climb the passes with a fully loaded trailer.

How long has your battery lasted so far, and how old is it?

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

It only becomes interesting when you try to drive up the passes with a fully loaded trailer.

Hi Jochen,

I certainly won't be in that predicament , at least not initially, due to the lack of AHK.

Quote:

How long has your battery been lasting so far, or how old is it?

Varta factory equipment from February 2004 (first registration).

The Ibiza 6K also has factory-installed (Tudor) equipment from March 2001, but even after a full charge, the clearly visible differences in acid density indicate that it's past its prime.
The starter motor is still happily whirring, but I'm not willing to bet my hand that Christel will make it through the next winter without any problems with this thing.

Hello Ulf,

If you install a battery from 2001, it will not have any thermal issues.

This protection was implemented so that the battery would at least last through the warranty period and only fail after 3 years.

Therefore, the thermal insulation is a nice feature, but it's probably useless in your case.

Best regards, Jochen.

Jochen_145 wrote:

This protection was implemented so that the battery would at least last through the warranty period and only fail after 3 years... Therefore, the thermal insulation is a nice feature, but it's probably useless

in your case.
Yes, my Polo is now also about 3 and a half years old, and according to the acid density measurement, its battery is still in good condition.

Well, let's see... I still have a lot of aluminum foil tape left over from installing the pipe insulation.
"Despite this, I will still attach some of it to the outside of the black battery box, facing the strong sources of heat radiation – hoping that at least the heating caused by infrared radiation will be reduced or delayed."

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.
I just tried it out with an infrared health lamp and my upper "decorative cover," which I've partially covered with film.
Shine the light from a distance of about 30 cm onto the lid, and after about 2 minutes, feel the inside of the lid: where there is no aluminum foil yet -> "OUCH," only slightly warmed under the aluminum foil.
So, that's already a highly effective heat shield against radiation from the hood down to the battery, especially when the sun is shining directly on the hood .

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

Wrapping the battery definitely increases its lifespan.
Not only is the operating temperature range important, as mentioned before (e.g., exceeding 65°C or falling below very low temperatures), but it is particularly crucial to avoid temperature gradients within the battery – meaning that cell 1 (close to the motor) should not be much hotter than cell 6 (far away from the motor).
Batteries last the longest when all cells are kept at a consistently uniform temperature with minimal temperature differences.
What also rapidly reduces the lifespan are consumers that draw current at levels higher than what the alternator can dynamically provide (e.g., amplifiers). This causes the on-board electrical system to repeatedly draw power from the battery with each bass beat, leading to many charge/discharge cycles.

Packing carefully and using power capacitors to buffer the amplifiers can help.

P.S. My moped battery (ZXR750), which was always stored in the garage (summer) and basement (winter), lasted for 14 years...

heating fossil.

heizfoss wrote:

Batteries last the longest when all cells are kept at a consistently uniform temperature and experience minimal temperature differences.

Okay: So, does regular, deep cooling during the winter months also shorten the battery's lifespan, even if the battery never exceeds 65°C within a large engine compartment?
Then, a battery casing designed to reduce heat loss would definitely be a worthwhile investment.

Off-topic, but interesting:

Quote:

What also rapidly reduces the lifespan are consumers with power demands that exceed what the alternator can dynamically provide (e.g., amplifiers). Then, the on-board electrical system draws from the battery with every bass beat => resulting in many discharge cycles... ... Buffering amps with PowerCaps helps.

Hm... let's say, for example, that the battery is used to power the sound system every half second for 0.1 seconds with an average current of 15 amperes. In doing so, it loses 1.5 As each time, which is only about 0.0007% of the nominal capacity of a 60Ah battery, and is recharged by the next bass beat.
Sure, at 30 minutes of disco music, that results in roughly 3600 charge-discharge cycles, but those are only "microscopic" amounts -> are they also that harmful?

Jochen_145 wrote:

Background: A lead-acid battery is actually only designed for ambient temperatures up to a maximum of 65°C.

Hello Jochen,

Where does this number come from?
According to my information, for lead-acid batteries, anything above 20 degrees is already reducing the lifespan.

Ulf wrote:

Sure, that results in approximately 3600 charge-discharge cycles for a 30-minute disco session, but those are just "microscopic" amounts -> are they also harmful?

According to Eurobat, the smoothing of the charging voltage is specified, meaning the maximum residual ripple caused by superimposed AC components. Conversely, transients in the final stage cause a much more significant drop in the charging voltage than the permissible few millivolts of residual ripple. Therefore, this fluctuation is likely not good for battery life...

Roger wrote:

According to Eurobat, the smoothing of the charging voltage is specified, meaning the maximum residual ripple caused by superimposed AC components. Conversely, transients in the output stage cause the charging voltage to drop much more significantly than the permissible few mV of residual ripple. Therefore, this "fussing" is likely not good for battery life...

Hm, during the bass drum hits, you can't really talk about load anymore, as long as the battery is supporting the on-board power system.

However, if the charging voltage fluctuates, for example, between 14.2 and 14.4 V, the battery would still need to be constantly charged: with varying current strengths, but without a reversal of direction (discharge). Is this already harmful as soon as the residual ripple exceeds the limits specified by Eurobat?

where does this number come from?
According to my information, for lead-acid batteries, anything above 20 degrees is already reducing the lifespan.

Hello Roger,

I'm inclined to believe that your number is correct.
The temperature I am aware of is the threshold at which the lifespan falls below the period relevant for warranty and goodwill considerations.

This number is the defined limit for an OEM.
The same figure was also mentioned by a supplier specializing in battery management systems.

Unfortunately, ... psst!

Best regards, Jochen.

ulf wrote:

Is this also harmful as soon as the residual wave height exceeds the limit according to Eurobat?

I assume this is the case because what the battery "sees" is then similarto a poorly smoothed sine wave with a very low frequency.

"Let me quote, more or less, from the guide:"

The superimposed alternating current at the charging voltage causes a reduction in service life.
Under continuous operation at a load of 5-100%, the residual ripple should remain below +/- 1%. Peak and wave-shaped deviations up to +/- 2.5% peak-to-peak are permissible.
Under no circumstances should the current flowing through the battery in standby parallel operation reverse direction towards discharge.


@Jochen:

Aha , however, these are also just temporary peaks. At sustained temperatures at this level, I think it would be over after a few weeks to a maximum of months.

Roger wrote:

The superimposed alternating current of the holding voltage causes a reduction in service life. Under continuous operation at 5-100% load, the residual ripple should remain below +/- 1%.

Um... how is the word "Last" to be understood here, when it primarily refers to charging the battery?

ulf wrote:

Roger wrote: The superimposed alternating current of the holding voltage causes a reduction in service life. Under continuous operation at 5-100% load, the residual ripple should remain below +/- 1%. Um... how is the word "Last" to be understood here, when it primarily refers to charging the battery?

This obviously refers to the load of the charger regulator.

Roger wrote:

This obviously refers to the load of the charger regulator.

Oops *slaps forehead*
Yes, yes, it's like not seeing the forest for the trees...

You can also disregard the private message I sent you this morning; I had confused that thread with this one.