Ibiza 6L: Wheel Spacers - Pros & Cons

Hello,

"In my opinion, the 6L looks a bit too narrow visually with 205 tires on the standard ET41-42 rims."




Now, there's a steel rim available for the Audi S3 and TT (model years 97-03 or similar) that is 6x16 ET31, and its center cap looks exactly like the one on the 6.5x16 ET42 rims I'm currently using. The bolt pattern and center bore are also identical.

Let's assume that the 6x16 ET31 wheels fit the 312mm brake system, and all the tires (size 205) are still road-legal and approved for use: What dynamic driving and wear-related consequences would be expected due to the wheel offset widening?

Hi Ulf,
The center point of tire contact typically shifts 1 cm outwards (steering radius), which means that on a road with uneven grip, the vehicle will tend to pull the steering wheel towards the side with better traction during braking, as it already has a tendency to do so because the other side isn't braking effectively. The opposite occurs during wheelspin or acceleration.
The best way to see how bad it is would be to try it with wheels that haven't been purchased or borrowed, or with 1 cm thick plates.
I once had experiences with different offset values on the Spinter, and I noticed it in the steering, especially at the limit.
A larger tire size of 17" would be more elegant, but possibly significantly more expensive.

teileklaus wrote:

Hi Ulf, The center point of tire contact typically shifts 1 cm outwards (steering radius). Consequently, on a road surface with uneven grip, the vehicle will tend to pull the steering wheel towards the side with better traction during braking, as it already has a tendency to do so because the other side isn't braking effectively. The opposite occurs during wheelspin or acceleration. You would best understand how bad it is by trying it with the wheels that were not purchased or borrowed, or with 1 cm thick plates.

Hi Klaus,

Thank you in advance for your answer.

The keyword "plates" made me think of looking for information on the suitability for registration and clearance for parts based on technical reports for the 6L model.
I found a useful document for download on the H&R website. It states that wheel spacers for 205-size tires are only necessary with spacer thicknesses of 15mm or more, or when the total offset is less than 27mm. I was planning to use an offset of ET31.

According to the expert report, no negative effects on the operational safety or roadworthiness were identified when using wider wheels up to 30mm.
According to that, a logically thinking inspector should also register the S3 rims on the 6L vehicle for me - provided he doesn't object to the reduced rim width (6" instead of 6.5" of the standard steel rim) .

It remains to be seen at what point of wheel track widening I would have to expect significantly premature wheel bearing damage .
EDIT: According to the expert report, the standard ET (end thrust) for the 6L engine is in the range of 35 to 43mm. With 31mm, I would only be 4mm outside of this range...

Quote:

A larger tire size of 17" would be more elegant, but possibly significantly more expensive.

I just sold the 17" standard alloy wheels.
They had ET41 wheels with 205/40 tires, and the ride comfort was practically eliminated -> no thanks, that was never really my thing.

I was thinking of a common size like 215/45 or 50-17.
No, I wouldn't choose the narrower 6-inch ones because of the aesthetics; I think you want a wider look, or maybe you want to put them on and show them off.

teileklaus wrote:

I was thinking of something like a common size, 215/45 or 50-17

. Those would be too big for the wheel wells; the standard size in 17" is 205/40!

Quote:

No, I wouldn't choose the narrower 6-inch ones because of the aesthetics; I think you want a wider look?

1/2" narrower is initially 13mm. However, this is distributed between the inner and outer edges of the rim, so that the outer edge only moves inward by 6.5mm - with the same offset!
ET31 instead of 42 still pushes the 6" outer rim 4.5 mm outwards compared to the current 6.5" rim .
And despite the somewhat balloon-like fit on the rim, the tire sidewall should protrude about 8 mm outwards.

Quote:

Or maybe try them out and see how they look.

It would be great if I could borrow a set of these relatively exotic rims, with the option to buy them if the brakes fit and the registration works out... Do you have any ideas?

Hi Ulf,

I've uploaded the expert opinions and attachments related to the TT/A3 wheel to the UL section. You'll find the technical data for the wheels there, including information relevant for TÜV approval, such as load capacity and rolling resistance.

Regards,

Okay, please provide the German text you want me to translate. I will then provide the English translation.

Arne wrote:

I've put the expert opinions and the attachment related to the TT/A3 wheel in the UL area.

There, you can at least find the technical data of the wheels for the TÜV (German technical inspection authority). Wheel load, rolling resistance, etc.... Hi Arne,

thank you very much

BTW: Are there any established guidelines or tables that specify which tire sizes are compatible with which rim widths, to ensure that the "natural" shape of the tire isn't deformed to a potentially damaging extent?
With my relatively flat 205/45 aspect ratio tires, even small changes in rim width can cause significant angle changes between the sidewalls and the tread -> is it possible that using 205/45 tires on a 6" rim is not permissible? }

Probably not, otherwise I would have seen such damage more than once on MT.
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/was-sagt-der-fachmann-zu-solch-einem-profilbild-der-20-zoeller-t2472957.html

So, then it was the opposite: after the nice rims were installed, there wasn't enough money left for tires in the correct width.

Cross-section is not included, which is a bit surprising. Standard table...





6.0 inches, 175 mm - 205 mm.

Arne wrote:

The cross-section is not included, which is a bit surprising. Standard table... 6.0 inches 175 mm - 205 mm

Aha? From what source does that information come from, if I may ask? *peeks curiously*

I'm not entirely sure either; there's no information about the origin. It's from a flyer from a tire wholesaler. It doesn't really provide much concrete information, but it's something to ease your conscience. However, since many cars use 205/55 tires on 6.5-inch rims, using 205/45 tires on a 6-inch rim seems perfectly fine.

Greetings.

I found some information online.

http://astra4ever.net/info--welche-reifenbreite-passt-auf-welche-felgenbreite-t28152.html

http://www.bmw-syndikat.de/bmwsyndikatforum/topic82487_%C3%9Cbersicht_-_Reifenbreite_und_Felgenbreite__Baureihen%C3%BCbergreifendes.html

http://www.ciao.de/Tuning_Allgemein_Tipps_Tricks__Test_2598552

http://www.reifen-pneus-online.at/zustandstabelle-ratschlaege.html

Ulf,

Regarding wheel width and wheel bearing wear: I have not observed premature wheel bearing wear in customer vehicles with a wheel width increase of up to 20mm. However, I have observed it with extreme wheel width increases of 40-60mm.

Therefore, I believe that with a 10mm widening, the reduction in lifespan will certainly be measurable to some extent, but likely not noticeable.

ulf wrote:

... BTW: Are there any established guidelines or tables that specify which tire sizes are compatible with which rim widths, to ensure that the "natural" shape of the tire isn't deformed to a potentially damaging extent? ...

Fixed allocation is not possible, but you definitely need the manufacturer's approval.

My 185/60R13 tires on the 7 or 8-inch rims repeatedly cause problems, as a special approval from the tire manufacturer is required for this (7 inches is still possible, but 8 inches is a nightmare).
This approval will then be included as part of the registration.


That's exactly how it is with narrower rims.


But speaking of the topic:
You don't need to worry much about it when it comes to 10mm.

Bertil wrote:

ulf wrote: ... BTW: Are there any established guidelines or tables that specify which tire sizes are compatible with which rim widths, to ensure that the "natural" shape of the tire isn't deformed to a potentially damaging extent? ... A fixed assignment is not required, but you definitely need the manufacturer's approval.

That means, during the inspection, I would have to, for example, present the Uniroyal approval for the summer tires (SR) and the Goodyear approval for the winter tires (WR), and would only have these tires, which are currently mounted, registered??

And if, for example, both types of tires are discontinued in 2 years, and then (of course, according to Murphy's Law), both are replaced by newer models, does the registration no longer apply? Or would I have to request a manufacturer's approval for each different type of tire and have it added to the vehicle registration documents?
If this mini-project were to degenerate into such a bureaucratic nightmare, I would rather abandon it and continue to cultivate the understated, narrow-gauge aesthetic.


How does the OEM actually manage to create ABEs (General Operating Permits) with universal entries that specify tire and rim sizes without listing specific tire types? There must be some kind of mapping between tire sizes and rim width ranges that applies to every (including those that will be released on the market in the :!:future

Quote:

). EDIT I suspect I know the answer: For such general approvals, the OEM takes on the technical responsibility, but in the case of individual approvals, the inspector would ultimately be held accountable if something goes wrong – is that correct?

But on the subject:
When it comes to 10mm, you don't have to worry too much. At least there's something good.}

ulf wrote:

That means, during the inspection, I would have to present, for example, the approval from Uniroyal for the summer tires and from Goodyear for the winter tires, and would only have the tires that are currently mounted registered?

Worst case scenario -> Yes.

I always had it noted: "Manufacturer's approval for x-inch rims must be carried separately."
If the "Blue Uncle" doesn't feel like it, then the above case applies.

Quote:

And if, for example, both types of tires are discontinued in 2 years, and then (of course, according to Murphy's Law), both are replaced by newer models, does the registration no longer apply? Or would I have to request a manufacturer's approval for each different type of tire and have it added to the vehicle registration documents?

In case 1... Yes...

Quote:

If this mini-project were to degenerate into such a bureaucratic nightmare, I would rather abandon it and continue to cultivate the understated, narrow-gauge aesthetic.

Simply contact the tire manufacturers directly and ask about the size. Don't specify any particular tire types. You might be within a standard size range.

Quote:

How does the OEM actually manage to create ABEs (General Operating Permits) with universal entries that specify tire and rim sizes without listing specific tire types? There must be some kind of mapping between tire sizes and rim width ranges that applies to every (including those that will be released on the market in the :!:future

).

EDIT
I suspect I know the answer: For such general approvals, the OEM takes on the technical responsibility, but in the case of individual approvals, the inspector would ultimately be held accountable if something goes wrong – is that correct?
}

Maybe.
The OE (Original Equipment) manufacturer ensures that the tires have a general approval. To this end, the manufacturer usually provides universal recommendations. However, if a specific tire is required, this will be indicated in the technical documentation, and the tire manufacturer will draw attention to it.

Your "Edit" section is otherwise accurate.