Audi 80 Cabriolet 1Z to AFN: Differences in Engine Control Units (ECUs) - WFS

Hello everyone,

I have an Audi Cabriolet from 1999 with the original 1Z (version 2) engine, and I want to install a complete Seat Toledo engine with an AFN motor into it.

Having already resolved the mechanical conversion issues, I now have a question about how the interaction between the immobilizer and the engine control unit works.

The Audi has a separate module for the WFS (original), and I believe the same is true for my Seat.
The question is now, is this simply plug and play, or does something need to be coded? What about the other interfaces (e.g., climate control)?

If I keep the WFS module from the Audi, should the Audi key still work, right?

I would be grateful for any help.

Best regards and thank you in advance.

Stefan.

Hi,
The 1Z engine has a wastegate turbocharger, while the AFN engine uses a variable geometry (VTG) turbocharger. Consequently, their control systems are different. Furthermore, the engine control units (ECUs) and wiring harnesses are unlikely to be compatible.
hg
Herbert.

What is the production year of the Toledo and its technology? A VCDS scan of the vehicle can be extremely helpful. Also, a scan of the Audi .

Hello,

The Audi was manufactured in 1999, and its VAT identification number is 028 906 021 GC.

The Seat is also a 1999 model, with VAT identification number 028 906 021 EF.

Could someone perhaps send me wiring diagrams for the convertible and the Seat, starting from the control unit? That would be really great!

Thank you in advance!

Best regards,

Stefan.

The control units are software-compatible.
"The turbocharger isn't a problem because there's no (hardware) difference between the variable geometry turbocharger (VTG) and a standard wastegate turbocharger (wastegate)."
"However, the clutch and brake inputs do not match in terms of polarity."
@stl: Where are you from?

Best regards,
Micha

Hello Wiesel,

How exactly do the two inputs differ in terms of their configuration or connection?
Can I generally keep the existing wiring harness and simply connect the VTG valve to the wastegate valve connector?

Best regards,

Stefan.

P.S.: I am from 41334 Nettetal.

stl73 wrote:

Hello Wiesel, How exactly does the configuration of the two inputs differ?

In Seat/VW vehicles, the resistors in the control unit have a positive resistance, and the buttons (F36 & F47) switch to ground.
In Audis (at least in the convertible models), the resistors are connected to ground, and the buttons switch to positive voltage.

Quote:

So, can I basically keep the existing wiring harness and simply connect the VTG valve to the wastegate valve's connector?

Yes.

Quote:

P.S.: I am from 41334 Nettetal

.
Unfortunately, it's a bit far from Rendsburg.

Hi there,
It starts with the mechanics. The wastegate turbocharger is pressurized with overpressure/atmospheric pressure via the N75 valve, while the VTG turbocharger uses atmospheric/vacuum pressure. This requires a vacuum reservoir (which is not present in the Audi 80; it would need to be checked whether there's even space for one on the AFN engine). The AFN engine would include the vacuum pump.
The characteristic maps, injection quantity limits, etc., of the AFN and 1Z engines are different. Both engines also have different power outputs (81 kW vs. 66 kW). The maximum values for boost pressure are 2250 mbar vs. 1950 mbar. Torque limitation is 42 mg/stroke vs. 35.2 mg/stroke. The reference values for the RSW sensor are also different. Therefore, the engine control unit and the engine must be compatible.You could try running the AFN engine with the MSG (manifold absolute pressure sensor) of the 1Z engine, which might work if you can get the boost pressure control right. However, there's a potential issue with the RSW sensor.
Since the MSG (Modular Socket Group) is vehicle-specific, the MSG for the Toledo AFN will only function if the wiring harness is adapted and the surrounding components are compatible, such as the GRA (Gearbox Control Unit) and the immobilizer.
Question: What is the reason for the conversion? Is there no other alternative, such as using an AFN engine block?
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"vg" translates to "very good" in English.
Herbert.

Hello Herbert,
If I understand Stefan correctly, he wants the Seat motor (including the Seat control unit and possibly other components).
Insert the vacuum storage devices into the Audis. Aside from the adaptation required for the WFS (Vehicle Information and Entertainment System), this results in...
"Just" the problem with F36 & F47.
From the perspective of the MSA15, there are no electrical differences between a wastegate and a variable turbine geometry (VTG) system.

Best regards,
Micha

Hello everyone,

Micha has perfectly summarized my plan. I am already well aware that the periphery of the motor is quite different, and this is also documented everywhere. However, I want to completely adapt the motor; after all, I have the entire Seat here, so I presumably have all the parts I might still need.

By the way, the Audi (actually an 8G7, not an 80) has a vacuum reservoir (which may be too small), as it also needs it to control the air conditioning system.

I can take the switches F36 and F47 from the Seat, but the question is whether any modifications to the wiring harness are necessary, and if so, what exactly needs to be changed.

The reason for the conversion is an upcoming major overhaul of the AHU engine (piston rings), and the fortunate circumstance that I was able to acquire a Toledo total loss vehicle with original 130,000 km for a very, very low price. And, of course, there's probably a little bit of madness involved in even coming up with such an idea.

Does anyone happen to have any circuit diagrams they could share with me?

What exactly needs to be adjusted for the WFS (Wireless File System)? Is it just necessary to reset the Master Storage (MStg), and if so, how?

@Micha: Where are you from?

Best regards,

Stefan.

stl73 wrote:

@Micha: Where are you from?

Rendsburg (as mentioned above ) is located in the heart of sleepy Schleswig-Holstein , which is the most beautiful state in the world }.

Best regards,
Micha

Whoever can read... Sorry, I missed that post.

I have access to a Gutmann MegaMacs device. Can I use it to modify the encoding of the WFS (Web Feature Server)? And if so, do I need any specific codes for that?

Best regards,

Stefan.

Hello,

The Audi was manufactured in 1999, and its VAT identification number is 028 906 021 GC.

The Seat is also a 1999 model, with VAT identification number 028 906 021 EF.

Could someone possibly send me wiring diagrams for the convertible and the Seat, starting from the control unit? That would be really great!

Thank you in advance!

Best regards,

Stefan

Both have the WFS (Vehicle Security System) in the control unit. For the convertible, key matching might be done via a separate module, while for the Toledo, it should be an IMMO I system located in the instrument cluster.


What exactly is required for the adaptation of the WFS? Is it only necessary to reset the MStg, and if so, how?

If you're transferring everything – not at all. This includes the engine control unit (ECU), the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) module/speedometer, and the corresponding keys. Otherwise, the process is the same as usual for pairing.

http://de.openobd.org/vw/wfs.htm#w1

mullemaus wrote:

If you're transferring everything – not at all. This includes the engine control unit (ECU), the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) module/speedometer, and the corresponding keys. Otherwise, the process is the same as usual for pairing. http://de.openobd.org/vw/wfs.htm#w1

Okay, then let's move on to the next problem...

Unfortunately, the plastic tag that came with the Audi is no longer available, but I would really prefer not to use the Seat keys.

What can I do then?

Best regards,

Stefan.

Just swap the transponders?

As far as I know, that's not a simple process, because the Audi already has the newer inner key blade (with an integrated transponder?).

Best regards,

Stefan.