Automotive Network Security Standards: Questions

Hello,

When comparing the on-board system options of our newer cars (Skoda Rapid and Polo WRC), I noticed that not all of the selectable channels have an explanatory text associated with them.
For example, with the Rapid, the times for the rear window heater, mirror heating, and interior light power supply (after the key is removed) can be specifically accessed. However, it seems that these options are missing in the Polo – or are they simply not documented and hidden within undocumented channels?

While browsing the coding options, I noticed the "Daytime running light can be activated by the driver" setting in both control units. I would like to enable this to avoid the, in my opinion, illogical and embarrassing situation of having to drive with the lights on in bright sunlight.
The Polo manual doesn't say anything about it (it only mentions that the TFL always lights up when the ignition is ON); the Rapid manual specifies the fuse that needs to be removed to disable the TFL - you could simply connect a simple switch in series with it.
Does anyone know how the driver activation of the TFL system works?

Attached are the PLA images of both BN-StG units.

Hello Ulf,

Thanks for the PLA! Let's see what comes out of the pipeline.

Best regards, Rainer.

ulf wrote:

... in order to avoid the IMO nonsensical and embarrassing practice of driving with lights on in bright sunshine. ...

Are you aware of the requirement that vehicles manufactured from 2011 onwards must be equipped with and use TFL (or daytime running lights)?
In the vehicle registration document (BDA), the note regarding deactivation should not be included at all, as it would invalidate the vehicle's registration (BA) ....

http://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/tuz_fas_iftk_tag_fahrl_lichtpflicht_26585_51207.pdf

Hi Bertil,

Quote:

In Germany and France, there is only a recommendation for drivers to use lights during the day. ... A 2011 study by the German Insurance Industry Accident Research Institute (UDV) found no significant positive effects on traffic safety attributable to daytime running lights. ... In Austria, in the autumn of 2007, the parliament was considering abolishing the "daytime running lights" requirement that had been in effect since November 2005.[14] It was ultimately abolished on January 1, 2008, although its use was not explicitly prohibited. Studies showed that the "daytime running lights" measure did not provide any overall safety benefits, increased CO2 emissions, and cost drivers an average of 50 euros per year. However, the ultimate reason for this measure was a perceptual physiological study,[15] which, for the first time using eye movement measurements, demonstrated what many opponents of daytime running lights had claimed, and what had previously been pointed out by ophthalmologists: The lights cause drivers to focus on information that is irrelevant to the immediate area in front of their vehicle, which worsens their reaction to sudden dangers. Source: Wikipedia

To the best of my knowledge, it is NOT mandatory to use TFL in Germany, as it has become clear that it is nonsensical.

"Personally, I see general use of tail lights as a safety risk for all vulnerable road users (bicycles, motorcycles, pedestrians). Tail lights should be exclusively used by these groups to increase visibility."

This doesn't stop Switzerland from trying out this obvious nonsense again, as they seem to believe they are smarter than all the countries that have tried it before: TFL was recently reintroduced here.

Best regards, Rainer.

The coding option "TFL can be activated by the driver" at least indicates that there's something you can do in a menu (which is still unknown). Now it depends on what exactly you have in the FIS (Instrument Cluster) area in terms of control units (ECUs).
In the coding for the central electrical system, it states "TFL can be switched via MMI." However, a checkmark there only becomes effective when the corresponding menu item is made available in the MMI, but only through a small detour. This allows me to control the TFL via the menu.
When I turn on the ignition or start the engine somewhere, I don't want to immediately announce it to the surroundings, especially not at night.
Please provide an overview of the control units in your vehicles.
hg
Herbert.

dieselschrauber wrote:

Hi Bertil, ... To the best of my knowledge, it is NOT mandatory to use TFL in Germany, as it has become clear that it is nonsensical. ...

Unfortunately, yes... but the detour is fantastically stupidly German.

First of all, in Germany, it is mandatory that any existing lighting equipment must also be functional. So far, so good... However, the TFL regulations only specify a deactivation rule: namely, the parking lights. Driving in Germany is not permitted with only the parking lights on; you must use the low beam headlights instead.
I once asked a person from TÜV about this. They even confirmed it to me. However, they wouldn't see it as strictly. How the race officials might view it is another question.

Herbert wrote:

Could you please provide an overview of the control units in your vehicles?

Here are both of them again, in a zip file.
Don't be surprised by the errors related to the Polo; I replaced the RNS system with a simple radio.

Off-topic, but I'm actually interested in this myself right now:

Quote:

Specifically, the parking light, and it is not allowed to drive with only that light on in country D

.

A court here viewed the matter differently:

https://www.wohnmobilforum.de/w-t43622.html

P.S. @ Rainer
Why doesn't the quotation mark appear where the cursor is, but always at the end of the text?

Do you have an MFA+ installed in either of them?
The Polo has a different TL number for the AI (J285) compared to ours. It might therefore be an MFA+ unit. If that's the case, it might be possible to add more options to the menu.
Possible alternative: Can you find a development test mode within the navigation system's settings?
hg
Herbert.

MFA+ is likely the correct model, see the picture. This is the Polo, and the Rapid has the same type of instrument cluster (with other details like a shorter speedometer scale and white pointers...).

If the only way to get the Polo to work with a certain feature is through the RNS315, does that mean it has to stay installed? Because in the long run, I'd prefer to use the smaller radio.

I've now checked the box "TFL can be activated by the driver" in the BNStG settings. However, this did NOT create a new TFL option in the "Lights & Visibility" menu of the FIS.

Or should I be looking elsewhere, or perhaps doing something additional?

It's possible that this feature doesn't work when the "Europe" setting is enabled in the device settings. In the EU, TFL has been mandatory since 2011.

Ah, so you're trying out different language settings in the AI!
I'll do that sometime in the next few days.

Or which other gaming laptops might have country settings that affect brightness?

The checkmark activates the corresponding menu entry in the MMI, but that entry must be configured in the MMI beforehand. The question is whether it's possible to display that entry in the FIS menu. In your configuration, there's no MMI. While there's a development test mode for the radio (which I also found in the Polo), I don't know what that mode contains for the Polo radio, or how to access it. In the A4 with MMI 3G, it works seamlessly; I use it to turn the TFL (Traffic Light Assistant) on and off.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

In your configuration, there is no MMI.

The RNS315 also had a multimedia interface with a port in the glove compartment.
I've never used this thing, but I could try installing it again for testing purposes.
Do you think it might be possible to control the TFL via the RNS315?

Hi Ulf,

I recently had the opportunity to see the interior .

ulf wrote:

However, this did NOT create a new TFL option in the FIS menu "Lights & Visibility". (...)want to do something extra?

Did you wait for the bus to "rest" (i.e., be idle)? It's possible that the additional menu options in the MFA (Multi-Function Display) only appear after the bus has been inactive for a while. (This is at least the case with several other MFA-related issues in the Passat 3C).

Greetings.
Guste.