Are fun and robustness incompatible?

Hello everyone.

If you read through this forum, you might get the impression that TDIs have evolved far away from the diesel engines of our fathers: both in terms of driving pleasure and in terms of susceptibility to defects .
Apparently, after around 100,000 km, one should always have a few thousand euros available for major engine repairs such as cylinder head or gasket replacement, fuel injection pump, pistons, turbocharger, injectors, etc., or even an entire engine replacement. In contrast, older diesel engines were considered to be properly broken in only after that mileage...

Does this impression mislead us (because forums like this naturally attract problem cases, while in the old days of diesel engines, an information flood like that available on the internet was completely impossible)? Or do TDIs actually only follow the rule "the more highly tuned, the more prone to failure"?

Does anyone have failure or repair statistics for TDIs compared to modern diesel engines from other manufacturers (and perhaps even older engine designs like the supposedly "unbreakable" Mercedes 200 D) and could share some information about it?

Hm...

However, the older diesel engines were also prone to problems if you wanted to have some fun driving them.

I only remember all the severed heads...

CU Gremlin.

Okay, when I compare my old Golf2 diesel (1.6L) to my Golf4 ALH and now my A4 AWX, the problems were different back then, and electronics played a much smaller role.

The 1.6-liter engine was manufactured in 1986 and brand new... However, three engines have since been installed, each after only 500 kilometers, because the engine block cracked for unknown reasons each time. VW made some changes to the production line.

The last engine ran for 450,000 km without any problems and was then sold.

But if I listen to the cold start in the morning of the 1.6 engine and compare it to my current awx... there has been a huge improvement.

Most people only start posting in a forum when they encounter a problem because they naturally get upset about the defect.
It wouldn't really be the point of a forum if everyone just posted about how durable their engine is...


I suspect that the total mileage for these modern engines will be lower.
Simply because the engines are so highly tuned.

Ingo wrote:

I suspect that the total mileage for these modern engines will be lower. Aus dem einfachen Grund weil die Motoren so hochgezüchtet sind.

Hi Ingo,

If you maintain them properly, whether they are new or old, the newer models (aside from potential defects in the electronics) will also last a very long time!

But for perfectly understandable reasons, they are no longer used as much as the old ones.
It's about the driving pleasure aspect, as opposed to the old diesel motto of 'better risk your life' than lose momentum. We have plenty of momentum and even more acceleration power.

I mean that more in relation to the engine speed . High engine speeds are a problem for diesel engines . Anyone who drives above 3000 rpm has to expect corresponding consequences. Doesn't one have quite some driving fun up to 3000 rpm, or not!?

We have a lot of TDI and DTI vehicles in the company. These are leased cars that are resold after about 3 years and approximately 150,000 kilometers (93,000 miles). Most of them are driven aggressively, often at full speed on the highway, pushing them to their limits. The service intervals are also only 'roughly' followed. However, so far, I haven't heard of any major engine failures...

Okay, bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest.
A gentleman drives a Golf 4 ALH with us, and he seems to think he needs to drive the diesel like a gasoline car. He sometimes shifts into 4th gear at 160 km/h on the highway. (I saw this happen live, and I was shocked ).

Unser Opel Astra DTi 2.0 wurde nicht gerade zaghaft eingefahren und sieht auf der Autobahn auch nur Vollgas. Fazit: Spritverbrauch sehr hoch (tank reicht für ca. 600-700 km), Ölverbrauch 1L je 1000km (wird oft mit zu wenig Öl gefahren), TopSpeed ca. 210 lt. Tachoose

Therefore, the assumption is: Is there a kind of 'break-in' effect with these engines (aside from material defects)?

haehnlein wrote:

I mean that more in relation to the RPM . High RPMs are a problem for diesel engines. Anyone who drives above 3000 RPM has to expect corresponding consequences. Up to 3000 RPM, you definitely have plenty of driving fun, right!?

Well... My 200D taxi, manufactured in '92, had 4 gears and the rev limiter kicked in at 6,300 RPM when reaching 160 km/h. Modern TDI engines, on the other hand, are limited much earlier due to combustion characteristics. So it's not necessarily about the engine speed.
More emphasis is being placed on improving engine performance and complexity.
My old Mercedes had a power output of 37.5 horsepower per liter. My Audi A3 has 68.42 horsepower per liter.
But so far, I haven't had any problems with the mechanics. However, I have had issues with the Div 109 relays.

I believe one of the problems is that technology is developing at an increasingly rapid pace, leaving car manufacturers with less time for long-term testing. As soon as one technology has been tested, the next one arrives. In a way, the car buyer then becomes the test subject.

By the way, my former taxi had 280,000 kilometers driven within the city, and I only had to replace the brake pads in 2 years and 60,000 kilometers!!! [img] http://home.t-online.de/home/bullitt667/smilies/data/uglyaldi.gif [/img]

Hi.

Das Hochzüchten aber gleichzeitig die Abgasvorschriften einhalten macht schon defektanfällig. Also bei mir sind am Motor bis jetzt nur Dinge eingegangen die man nicht unbedingt für eine hohe Leistung brauchen würde ... die aber für niedrigere Abgasemissionen sorgen sollen. Und bei den Benzinern ist das auch so, kommt mir vor. Da geht schnell mal die Lambdasonde oder der Kat ein. Ich denke in Zukunft wirds noch schlimmer werden. IMore and more complex engines will inevitably have an increasing number of potential failure points.

Best regards, Ernst.

HI,
Older engines were also far from indestructible. The first Volkswagen diesel engines with a 1.5L displacement were simply junk.
The same applies to the 1.6L TD engine in the bus.
The last sluggish 2.4-liter diesel engine in the T4 wasn't great either.
"Even the 200D to 240 D models were prone to failure. A specific production run was known for having cracked cylinder heads. Driving at low RPMs could lead to bearing damage, while revving the engine when cold would cause wear on the internal components. 200Ds with poor compression that wouldn't start in winter were a nightmare for used car buyers."
Of course, there were no stuck EGR valves or VGTs.

Hi,

while the 200D and 300D models were already exceptionally reliable, regardless of whether they were in a W123 or W124.
As far as I know, the main problems were primarily with the early 300 D Turbo models, especially concerning the cylinder head.

And Volkswagen also once produced a 2.4-liter inline-six diesel engine.
For LT and Volvo.
There are completely different opinions, ranging from 'indestructible' to 'cylinder head made of cardboard'...
You can't really make general judgments about engines.
When I was looking for my Audi 100 with the AAT engine, there was a whole range of options available.
Some have engines with over 400,000 km (249,000 miles) on them, while others have automatic transmissions and only 80,000 km (49,700 miles).

Naja... Mein 200D Taxi Bj 92 hatte 4 Gaenge und bei 160 hat dieser Schleifstein bei 6.300 U/min abgeregelt.
That's interesting! Are you sure about that?
I could swear that our 200 D was downshifting at exactly 1,000 RPM earlier.
Is that perhaps the reason for the extreme slowness...?

Okay, I have to say this: there's an MB-100 bus here on the farm that drives 4 kilometers to the quarry every morning and 4 kilometers back in the evening, and sometimes also 12 kilometers to pick up materials. Besides scheduled oil and filter changes, it receives no other maintenance... and yet it just keeps running and running and running... which is quite interesting.

The BMW 325d as well. A 'housewife' profile. Driven without complaint for almost 10 years...

A 130 horsepower PD (presumably referring to a specific type of equipment or vehicle) in my company's field service has already broken down twice.

'On a colleague's car (likely a Volkswagen), the metal around the engine rusted away at 350,000 kilometers.'

My BMW T3 is probably dead. You had to force it into the limiter just to get up that awful hill (may the creator of the 5-speed gearbox rot in hell).

I still sometimes see my grandfather's old W123 (a 300D) driving around.


It seems there's no general rule to apply here. I've seen engines that were treated well and driven responsibly, yet still failed prematurely.
On the other hand, there were those that were subjected to incredible stresses or are still being subjected to them, but they performed their duty without complaint until the surrounding environment lost its integrity or was severely altered (the softener motors could only dream of such longevity!).

'By the way, ULF:'
The MB-100 is a lot of fun, even though the 0-100 acceleration can be measured with a stopwatch... it's just iconic to drive around with this thing .
'Pull the lever for 20 seconds to pre-glow, and then you hear this sound... The steering wheel is as big as a family pizza for families of 10.'
In a way, driving pleasure and robustness are actually compatible.

CU Gremlin.

Markus H. wrote:

Hi, I could swear that our 200 D was downshifting at exactly 1,000 RPM earlier. Ob das wohl der Grund für die ausgesprochene Lahmheit war...??

Did you own a W123 or a W124?
The 72 horsepower version of the W124, which was produced until 1989, also had its power output reduced.
But I don't think it was 1000 RPM higher, more like around 400. The red zone started at 5,800.

Gremlin wrote:

ein 130PS-PD im aussendienst meiner firma ist schon zweimal geplatzt.

Hi Ralf,

Can you describe the damage in more detail? Please include information about the affected parts, age/mileage, and any comments from Volkswagen (VAG).

Quote:

The MB-100 is a lot of fun, even though the 0-100 acceleration can be measured with a stopwatch... it's simply iconic to drive around with this thing . "Pull the lever for 20 seconds to pre-glow, and then you hear this sound... The steering wheel is as big as a family pizza for families of 10." so gesehen sind fahrspass und robustheit doch vereinbar...

Hm, that's one way to look at things... but I actually meant a different kind of driving enjoyment -> less iconic, more fast-paced .

Hi,

Did you have the W123 or the W124?
The 72 horsepower version of the W124, which was produced until 1989, also had its power output detuned.
But I don't think it was 1000 RPM higher, but rather around 400. The red zone started at 5,800.

Yep, the W124 is correct.
And the year of manufacture was 1987, which is why it only has a sluggish 72 horsepower, not the sporty 75 horsepower.
Okay, then I understand it.
However, I am truly surprised that a diesel engine can only reach its maximum RPM of 6,300.