Calibration Pressure & Settling Time: Your Input Needed

In common-rail TDIs, the engine control unit performs a zero-quantity calibration of the injectors at regular intervals.
This is done to determine the wear condition and control behavior of each individual injector. Therefore, at various test pressures, the injection time of the injector is determined, which is just about sufficient to cause either an injection or no injection.

The times measured at the various test pressures allow for an evaluation of the injector, here is an example for 2.7/3.0 TDIs.
Therefore, only values from functioning engines should be included here.


Your input is needed; please share the following:
- Engine code and engine type/displacement.
- Unusual behavior while driving.
- Engine performance.
- Mileage
- Activation times for the respective test pressures.

Code:

Motor: CFFB, 2.0 CR-TDI Auffälligkeiten: keine Leistung: 103kW Kilometerstand: 132.000 Samstag,20,August,2016,21:57:30:18808 VCDS -- Windows-basierter VAG/VAS-Emulator läuft auf Windows 8.1 x64 VCDS Version: RKS 16.8.0.1 Datenstand: 20160808 DS254 https://shop.dieselschrauber.org/en Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WAUZZZ8P8AB0*****   KFZ-Kennzeichen: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------                 Adresse 01: Motorelektronik  (03L 906 018 AB) 21:57:27   IDE01387   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 46.30 µs   IDE01388   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -17.40 µs   IDE01389   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -12.80 µs   IDE01390   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 -7.40 µs   IDE01391   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -9.35 µs   IDE01392   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -5.85 µs   IDE01393   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 -7.60 µs   IDE01394   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -1.15 µs   IDE01395   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -0.40 µs   IDE01396   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 19.40 µs   IDE01397   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -15.30 µs   IDE01398   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -17.55 µs

Hello.

My data:

2.7 V6 TDI BPP 180 hp CR with 88,600 km.

Jeweils "nur" erster und zweiter Wert pro Zylinder, da nur maximal 12 pro Sitzung geloggt werden können. Die 3. Werte findet Ihr im Screenshot. sehen aber ähnlich aus. Kann mir jemand was über den Zustand der Injektoren sagen? Danke.



Vehicle Identification Number (VIN): WAUZZZ8HX7K018335 License Plate: HUFE
Mileage: 88600 Repair order: calibrate pressure.



"Die Sonne scheint hell und warm. Die Vögel zwitschern fröhlich in den Bäumen. Ein leichter Wind weht durch das Gras. Es ist ein perfekter Tag für einen Spaziergang."
"Die Sonne scheint hell und warm. Die Vögel zwitschern fröhlich in den Bäumen. Ein leichter Wind weht durch das Gras. Es ist ein perfekter Tag für einen Spaziergang."


Address 01: Engine Control Module (8H1 910 401)

10:16:08 AM
6.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
12.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 2. Calibration pressure.
4.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
10.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
4.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 2. Calibration pressure.
0.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
4.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Ansteuerdauer 1. Calibration pressure.
8. 0 ms - Control duration. 2. Calibration pressure.

Hello.

Since I've owned the vehicle, I regularly read and record the values approximately every 2000-3000 km. Since 18,000 km, I have only been using Maxmotion diesel because the values with regular diesel demonstrably worsened in the positive direction (i.e., towards carbon buildup) when driving short distances.
Similarly, the distance traveled between DPF regeneration cycles has increased since using biofuel.
The driving profile is always exactly the same.


3.0 CR-TDI 232 hp, Engine Code: ASB.

Here are the last two tables I'm posting.

Mileage: 223,835 km
Date: 2016-04-27

Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 12.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 10.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 2.0 ms.

Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 12.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 2.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.



Mileage: 227024 km
Date: 2016-07-18

Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 10.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 2.0 ms.

Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 4.0 ms.

Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 4.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 10.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 4.0 ms.

Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 14.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 2.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.


Regards, Mpire.

Regarding the interpretation of values for the V6-CR-TDI engine:
One must distinguish between the different pressure levels.

Level 1:
-Running at or slightly above the idle speed, you can hear a knocking sound, but it's not fatal for the engine, although it may cause some smoke.
Anything that goes into negative territory from level 1 to 10 is something I think should be closely monitored; anything that goes significantly more into the negative is concerning.

Level 2:
- more dangerous because it involves higher injection pressure and temperatures, and it's also the most commonly used speed range.
I would not accept high negative values. I would only continue running the control unit for a maximum matching interval; if nothing changes then, I would take action.

Level 3:
- fatal, as it can occur without any noticeable symptoms, often happens on highways and therefore usually involves high load and temperature.
I wouldn't continue operating with negative values at level 3; it's not going to get any better, and the needle valve seal will definitely no longer provide a proper seal at that high pressure setting.

Generally, values above 25ms can be brought back down by using different fuel, adjusting the driving style, and employing cleaning agents, regardless of the pressure level.
This is my own experience based on three different ASB 3.0 TDI engines and one BPP 2.7 TDI engine.

Regards, Mpire.

Here are some of my BPP values (2.7).
From the time of purchase, for approximately 2.5 years. The mileage is relatively low for a diesel engine. Initially, I used a lambda cleaner due to the positive readings, but it had little effect. Then I tried two-stroke oil.

@christians: Thank you! What's the mileage?

CJCD, 110kW, mileage approximately 48,000 km:

Before/After Black and White Update.

Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -12.80 µs / -18.55 µs
Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -5.90 µs / -5.90 µs
Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -3.55 µs / -4.00 µs.
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -15.10 µs / -16.55 µs
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -7.55 µs / -6.95 µs
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 3: .10 µs / +2.35 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -10.00 µs / -12.85 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -2.70 µs / -3.55 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -2.00 µs / -3.40 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -13.70 µs / -12.35 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -16.95 µs / -19.55 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -17.15 µs / -17.60 µs


The values have been read. Whether readings of 0.05 µs (or 50 ns) are meaningful is questionable.

hg
Herbert.

Here, the units are moving around quite a bit. Are we always talking about/measuring in microseconds, or are those "6-enders" actually measured in milliseconds?
haithamina

haithamina wrote:

Here, the units are moving around quite a bit. Are we always talking about/measuring microseconds, or are we actually referring to milliseconds in the case of the aforementioned 6-ends? haithamina

It's unclear whether the readings are inaccurate or if the differences are actually that significant. The vehicle's body control module is also off by a factor of 1000 (battery internal resistance is showing as 4 ohms, which should be closer to 4 milliohms). In the latter case, the error in the reading is definitely due to the control module.

^Edit: Meanwhile, I suspect that the ms times are a display error/bug in the relevant control units.
Reason: At 4000 rpm, the engine rotates at 66 revolutions per second, which means approximately 15 milliseconds per complete crankshaft revolution. Therefore, delay times of 10 milliseconds for any injection timing would be completely pointless. I assume that "us" (as also displayed in the 2.0 CR-TDI) actually refers to microseconds.

First readings at 135,000 km, last readings at 170,000 km.

@dieselschrauber and others:

Could you create thresholds based on the data provided?
I imagine it's something like a traffic light system:

Values between +5 and -5 milliseconds are displayed in green, indicating that they are within an acceptable range.
... ......................................yellow (observe and proceed).
... ...................................red (Nozzle change)

Can a man (you) create something like that?

Hi Hufi!

EXACTLY FOR THAT REASON! ...this thread was created to collect experiences and threshold values.

Therefore, you will have to be patient and wait for the results here until other users post their values.

Best regards from Munich!

Here are my results/values.

The table includes the kilometers and dates.
The vehicle is a Volkswagen Passat 3C Variant BlueMotion (CBDC) with a 5-speed manual transmission.
Unfortunately, I only included the first and second calibration values initially because I didn't know what to do with the others. It's great that this survey is now shedding some light on the situation.

You can choose the unit of measurement. Personally, I tend to prefer microseconds because a complete piston stroke only takes a few milliseconds, and the duration of the injections, and especially the deviation in the start of injection, should be several orders of magnitude smaller than that.

Currently at approximately 180,000 km. The engine is running smoothly. The diesel particulate filter regenerates every 400-800 km. Fuel consumption is low. The maximum acceleration is as expected for an 81 kW engine with a weight of 1.5 tons. Sometimes I experience slight jerking when idling, and barely noticeable pulsating acceleration, which could also be caused by the dual-mass flywheel (due to frequent city driving and 180,000 km).

At the beginning, when the values were high, I tried various additives from LM and then premium diesel fuels available in Germany. My impression was that the engine ran smoother, quieter, and perhaps with less hesitation when using some of these products.

Hi there,

Here are the values for my CANA (2.7 140kW) over the past year. I didn't record them very frequently, but rather approximately every 15,000 km. The engine is running smoothly and relatively fuel-efficient (6.8 liters on average over 30,000 km). Mostly long distances, but with weekly periods of city driving here in Berlin.
No two-stroke oil. Stino diesel from various independent sources...

VCDS says the values are in milliseconds (ms).

km: 74990, 90320, 103120
Cylinder 1-1: -8, 16, 6.
Cylinder 1-2: 10, 10, 4.
Cylinder 1-3: 4, 8, 8.
Cylinder 2-1: 6, 13, -4.
Cylinder 2-2: 9, 8, 8.
Cylinder 2-3: 8, 8, 9.
Cylinder 3-1: 0, 5, 15.
Cylinder 3-2: 6, 9, 13.
Cylinder 3-3: 9, 11, 10.
Cylinder 4-1: 0 -1 16
Cylinder 4-2: 4, 14, 7.
Cylinder 4-3: 7, 9, 11.
Cylinder 5-1: 6, 1, 6.
Cylinder 5-2: 1, 6, 8.
Cylinder 5-3: 0, 2, 6.
Cylinder 6-1: 12, 8, 8.
Cylinder 6-2: 8, 10, 5.
Cylinder 6-3: 8, 8, 9.

Best regards from Berlin.
olli

Hufe wrote:

@dieselschrauber u.a.: Could you create thresholds based on the data provided? I imagine it's something like a traffic light system: Values between +5 and -5 milliseconds are displayed in green, indicating that they are within an acceptable range. ... ......................................yellow (observe and proceed). ... ...................................red (Nozzle change) Can a man (you) create something like that?

Haha, there's the topic for determining what is still considered normal and what isn't.
First, gather some data...

Best regards, Rainer.

Here are the values from my car's configuration (CFGB) with a mileage of 103,273 km. I am very curious to see the analysis and also to find out why my values differ.

And here's another CFGB:

Engine: CFGB, 2.0 CR-TDI.
Abnormalities: none.
Power: 125 kW
Mileage: 117,000 km