Actuation time + calibration pressures, your input is needed

In Common-rail TDIs, the engine control unit performs a zero-quantity calibration of the injectors at regular intervals.
This is used to determine the wear condition and control behavior of each individual injector. Therefore, the injection time of the injector is determined at various pressure levels, at which point either an injection occurs or does not occur.

The times measured at the various test pressures allow for an

Code:

Motor: CFFB, 2.0 CR-TDI Auffälligkeiten: keine Leistung: 103kW Kilometerstand: 132.000 Samstag,20,August,2016,21:57:30:18808 VCDS -- Windows-basierter VAG/VAS-Emulator läuft auf Windows 8.1 x64 VCDS Version: RKS 16.8.0.1 Datenstand: 20160808 DS254 https://shop.dieselschrauber.org/en Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WAUZZZ8P8AB0*****   KFZ-Kennzeichen: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------                 Adresse 01: Motorelektronik  (03L 906 018 AB) 21:57:27   IDE01387   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 46.30 µs   IDE01388   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -17.40 µs   IDE01389   Injektor 1: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -12.80 µs   IDE01390   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 -7.40 µs   IDE01391   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -9.35 µs   IDE01392   Injektor 2: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -5.85 µs   IDE01393   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 -7.60 µs   IDE01394   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -1.15 µs   IDE01395   Injektor 3: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -0.40 µs   IDE01396   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 1 19.40 µs   IDE01397   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 2 -15.30 µs   IDE01398   Injektor 4: Raildruckkalibrierpunkt 3 -17.55 µs

evaluation of the injector, here is an example for 2.7/3.0 TDIs.
Therefore, only values from functioning engines should be included here.


Your input is needed, please share the following:
- Engine code and engine type/displacement.
- Unusual behavior while driving.
- Engine performance.
- Mileage
- Activation times for the respective test pressures.

Hello,

My data:

2.7 V6 TDI BPP 180 hp CR with 88,600 km.

"Only" the first and second values are provided per cylinder, as a maximum of 12 can be logged per session. The third values can be found in the Screenshot, but they look similar. Can anyone tell me something about the condition of the injectors? Thank you.



Vehicle Identification Number: WAUZZZ8HX7K018335
License plate: HUFE
Mileage: 88600. Repair order: calibrate pressure.



"Die Sonne scheint hell, und die Vögel zwitschern fröhlich. Es ist ein wunderschöner Tag, um spazieren zu gehen oder ein Picknick im Park zu machen. Viele Menschen genießen das gute Wetter und verbringen Zeit im Freien."
"Die Sonne scheint hell, und die Vögel zwitschern fröhlich. Es ist ein wunderschöner Tag, um spazieren zu gehen oder ein Picknick im Park zu machen. Viele Menschen genießen das gute Wetter und verbringen Zeit im Freien."


Address 01: Engine Control Module (8H1 910 401)

10:16:08
6.0 ms Activation duration 1. Calibration pressure.
12.0 ms. Control duration: 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Activation duration 1. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms, drive duration 2. Calibration pressure.
4.0 ms Trigger duration 1. Calibration pressure.
10.0 ms Activation duration, step 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Activation duration 1. Calibration pressure.
4. 0 ms Drive duration 2. Calibration pressure.
0. 0 ms Activation duration 1. Calibration pressure.
4. 0 ms Drive duration 2. Calibration pressure.
6.0 ms Activation duration 1. Calibration pressure.
8.0 ms, Activation duration: 2. Calibration pressure.

Hello.

Since I've had the vehicle, I regularly read and record the values approximately every 2000-3000 kilometers. Since 18,000 km, I have only been using Maxmotion diesel fuel, because the values with regular diesel have demonstrably worsened in the wrong direction (i.e., leading to carbon buildup) when driving short distances.
Similarly, the distance traveled between DPF regenerations has increased since using biofuel.
The driving profile is always exactly the same.


3.0 CR-TDI 232 hp, Engine Code: ASB

Here are the last two tables.

Mileage: 223,835 km
Date: 2016-04-27

Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 12.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 10.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 2.0 ms.

Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 12.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 2.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.



Mileage: 227,024 km
Date: 2016-07-18

Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 0.0 ms.
Injector 1: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 10.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 2: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 2.0ms.

Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 6.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 3: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 4.0 ms.

Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 2.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 4.0 ms.
Injector 4: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.

Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 10.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 8.0 ms.
Injector 5: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 4.0 ms.

Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 1, 14.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 2, 2.0 ms.
Injector 6: Rail pressure calibration point 3, 0.0 ms.


Regards, Mpire.

Regarding the interpretation of values for the V6-CR-TDI engine:
One must distinguish between the different pressure levels.

Level 1:
-Running at or slightly above the idle speed, you can hear a knocking sound, but it's not necessarily fatal for the engine, possibly. Smoke generation.
Anything that goes into negative territory from level 1 to 10 is, in my opinion, worth keeping a close eye on, while anything that goes significantly more into negative territory is concerning.

Level 2:
- more dangerous, as it involves higher injection pressure and temperatures, and it's also the most frequently used speed range.
I would not accept high negative values. I would only allow the engine control unit to continue operating for a maximum adjustment interval, and if nothing changes then, I would take action.

Level 3:
- fatal, as it can occur without any noticeable symptoms, often happens on highways, and is usually associated with high load and temperature.
I wouldn't continue operating with negative values at level 3; it's not going to get any better, and the needle valve seal will definitely not seal properly at that high pressure level.

Generally, pressure values below 25ms, regardless of the pressure level, can usually be brought back down by using different fuel, adjusting the driving style, and using cleaning agents.
This is my own experience based on three different ASB 3.0 TDI engines and one BPP 2.7 TDI engine.

Regards, Mpire.

Here are some of my BPP (2.7) values.
From the time of purchase, for approximately 2.5 years. The mileage is relatively low for a diesel engine. Initially, I used a lambda cleaner due to the positive readings, but it didn't have much effect. Then, two-stroke oil.

@christians: Thank you! What is the mileage?

CJCD, 110kW, mileage approximately 48,000 km:

Before/after black and white update.

Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -12.80 µs / -18.55 µs
Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -5.90 µs / -5.90 µs
Injector 1, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -3.55 µs / -4.00 µs
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -15.10 µs / -16.55 µs
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -7.55 µs / -6.95 µs
Injector 2, Rail pressure calibration point 3: .10 µs / +2.35 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -10.00 µs / -12.85 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -2.70 µs / -3.55 µs
Injector 3, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -2.00 µs / -3.40 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 1: -13.70 µs / -12.35 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 2: -16.95 µs / -19.55 µs
Injector 4, Rail pressure calibration point 3: -17.15 µs / -17.60 µs


The values have been read. The extent to which specifications of 0.05 µs (or 50 ns) are meaningful is debatable.

hg
Herbert.

Units are moving around quite a bit here. Are we always talking about microseconds, or are we actually measuring milliseconds in the 6-way connections mentioned above?
I am unable to translate "haithamina" because it does not appear to be a word or phrase in the German language. It may be a misspelling, a proper noun, or a term from a specialized field. If you can provide more context or clarify the intended meaning, I would be happy to assist you with the translation.

haithamina wrote:

Here, the units are moving around quite a bit. Are we always talking about microseconds, or are we actually measuring milliseconds in the 6-way connections mentioned above? haithamina

It's unclear whether there's a display error or if the differences are actually this significant. The vehicle's body control module is also off by a factor of 1000 (battery internal resistance is 4 ohms, which should be closer to 4 milliohms). In the latter case, the error message is definitely caused by the control unit.

^Edit: Meanwhile, I suspect that the ms times are a display error/bug in the relevant control units.
Reason: At 4000 rpm, the engine rotates at 66 revolutions per second, which equates to approximately 15 milliseconds per complete crankshaft revolution. Delay times of 10ms for any injection times would therefore be completely pointless; I assume that "us" (as is also displayed in the 2.0 CR-TDI) actually means microseconds.

First values recorded at 135,000 km, last values recorded at 170,000 km.

@dieselschrauber and others:

Could you create thresholds/limits based on the data provided?
I imagine it's something like a traffic light system:

Values between +5 and -5 milliseconds are displayed in green, indicating that they are within an acceptable range.
... ....................................yellow (observe and proceed).
.... ...................................red (change nozzles)

Can a man (you) create something like that?

Hey Hufi!

EXACTLY FOR THAT REASON!!! ...this thread was created to collect experiences and threshold values.

Therefore, you will have to be patient and wait for the results here, as other users will need to post their values.

Best regards from Munich!

Here are my values.

The table includes the kilometers and the date.
The vehicle is a Passat 3C Variant BlueMotion (CBDC) with a 5-speed manual transmission.
Unfortunately, I only included the first and second calibration values initially because I didn't know what to do with the others. It's great that this survey is finally shedding some light on the issue.

You can choose the unit. Personally, I tend to favor microseconds because a complete piston stroke only takes a few milliseconds, and the duration of the injections, and especially the deviation of the injection start time, should be several orders of magnitude smaller than that.

Currently at approximately 180,000 km. The engine is running normally. The diesel particulate filter regenerates every 400-800 km. The fuel consumption is low. The maximum acceleration is as expected for 81 kW with a weight of 1.5 tons. Sometimes I experience slight jerking when idling and barely noticeable pulsating acceleration, which could also be caused by the dual-mass flywheel (due to a lot of city driving and 180,000 km).

At the beginning, when the values were high, I tried various additives for diesel fuel, and then I experimented with premium diesel fuels available in Germany. My impression was that the motor ran smoother, quieter, and perhaps with less vibration when used with certain products.

Hi,

Here are the values for my CANA (2.7 140kW) over the past year. I didn't record them very frequently, but rather approximately every 15,000 km. The engine is running smoothly and relatively fuel-efficient (6.8 liters on average over 30,000 km). Mostly long-distance travel, but occasionally also city driving here in Berlin, on a weekly basis.
No two-stroke oil. Stino-Diesel from various independent sources...

VCDS states that the values are in milliseconds.

km 74990 90320 103120
Cylinder 1-1: -8, 16, 6.
Cylinder 1-2: 10, 10, 4.
Cyl. 1-3 4 8 8
Cylinder 2-1: 6, 13, -4.
Cylinder 2-2 9 8 8
Cylinder 2-3 8 8 9
Cylinder 3-1: 0, 5, 15.
Cyl. 3-2 6 9 13
Cylinder 3-3: 9, 11, 10.
Cylinder 4-1 0 -1 16
Cylinder 4-2 4 14 7
Cylinder 4-3 7 9 11
Cyl. 5-1 6 1 6
Cyl. 5-2 1 6 8
Cyl. 5-3 0 2 6
Cyl. 6-1 12 8 8
Cyl. 6-2 8 10 5
Cyl. 6-3 8 8 9

Best regards from Berlin,
olli

Hufe wrote:

@dieselschrauber u.a.: Could you create thresholds/limits based on the data provided? I imagine it's something like a traffic light system: Values between +5 and -5 milliseconds are displayed in green, indicating that they are within an acceptable range. ... ....................................yellow (observe and proceed). .... ...................................red (change nozzles) Can a man (you) create something like that?

Haha, there's this topic for the purpose of determining what is still considered normal and what is not.
First, let's gather some data...

Best regards, Rainer.

Here are the values from my CFGB with 103,273 km mileage. I am very eager to see the results and also to find out why my values differ.

And here's another CFGB:

Engine: CFGB, 2.0 CR-TDI.
Abnormalities: none.
Power: 125 kW
Mileage: 117,000 km