Turbo Upgrade: PD to TDI (AFN)

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if it's possible to install a turbocharger from a Pump Duse engine with 130 or 150 horsepower into a standard TDI engine, specifically my AFN.
The part numbers are different, and I think the connections for the charge pressure sensors are also slightly larger.

Has anyone done this before?
Or does anyone have any ideas whether this could work or not?
Theoretically, it should work since both are Garrett VTG turbochargers.

Thank you for your responses.

Best regards, Jens.

Hi.

Is your charger broken, or why are you willing to take the "doesn't fit" risk?

Once the turbocharger is larger than the original, the onset of pressure buildup will generally occur at higher engine speeds, meaning that turbo lag will become more pronounced.

Or do you want to force-feed the poor AFN engine with a constant pressure of ~1.5 bar to eliminate smoking at 160 tuned horsepower?

Hello Ulf,

No, my charger is not defective.
Basically, it's about tuning, but initially, it's purely theoretical.
I already have a chip installed (a very small one, 130 horsepower, with TÜV approval).
To get even more out of it (I am, of course, fully aware of the risks, which we don't need to discuss), there is now the option to increase the boost pressure even further via a chip (my chip tuner calls this 'stage 2' with 1.3 bar and 'stage 3' with 1.4-1.5 bar), or to have a complete overhaul done, for example, by Rothe Motorsport. I inquired about this, and if anyone is interested, they offer the following for the AFN:
Cylinder head machining, aftermarket catalytic converter, exhaust system from catalytic converter onwards, larger...
Turbocharger, other fuel injectors, engine control unit (ECU) optimization (new).
Steuergerät ). Der Bausatz kostet inkl. Montage 5500,00 Euro. At your...
With that vehicle, you would achieve approximately 170-175 horsepower.

I've also heard that it's possible to install a turbocharger from a PD engine (a Dane apparently did this on his Passat AFN, although he couldn't explain the process to me in detail).
I just wanted to find out what's going on.

Thank you for your answers (of any kind!).

Greetings & have a nice weekend.
Jens.

For 5500 euros, you can already get a used car with a 150 horsepower engine.
Okay, I admit that the installation cost was not included, but it's 5500 Euros .

Regards,
Claus.

Yes, the price shocked me too!
I also think it should have a genuine 150 PD engine in it.

Now, let's get back to the original question: Has anyone had any experiences or ideas about whether this could work or be a good solution?

Best regards, Jens.

Hello everyone,

Here are some more data points for the two turbochargers.
The AFN:
Garrett VNT 15.
028 145 702H
gs4
454231-3
The 130 hp PD version:
GT 1749 VA
GA 303825301 GEV 200
DI 201179 F

According to Garretthompeage (www.egarrett.com), is the VNT15 and the VT17 the same turbocharger?
Does anyone else know anything about that?
The diameter of the air intake appears to be 45mm.

Best regards, Jens.

Hello,

I once saw a picture on eBay of a new Tubolader for a 130PS PD engine. It already included the exhaust manifold.
So, everything was "a single unit."
The VNT15 is attached to the manifold with screws.
Assuming that was the correct image, those are definitely two different chargers.
I find it hard to believe that the turbocharger manifold from this unit will fit the AFN engine, as the PD engines are completely new designs that are fundamentally different from the AFN/1Z/AEY engines.

So far, I have only read about a VNT20 being used on the AFN.

Greetings,
Thomas.

Hello Thomas,

Yes, I read that too. It was a VW Motorsport conversion on a Golf 3 Cabrio AFN, bringing the power up to 180 horsepower with different injectors, a modified fuel pump, reduced compression, and a VNT 20 turbo. The total output is 180 horsepower.

Regarding the exhaust manifold issue: Yes, I have also seen the picture.
It's highly unlikely that this is a part. By the way, on eBay, there's a picture of a defective turbocharger from a 130hp PD engine.
Perhaps someone can provide more information based on the image!

Best regards, Jens.

Hi,

Yes, that was it. Quite impressive indeed.

The charger on eBay is designed for a lengthwise installation. At least, that's what the description says. The one I saw before was from a Golf 4, and it was installed sideways. Maybe that's the reason. However, I can't say for sure.

Greetings,
Thomas.

Hi,
180 horsepower from a 110 horsepower TDI? That's a whopping 80% more power.
I always thought the crankcase was designed to handle up to about 300 Nm of torque. With 180 horsepower, that should be around 400 Nm, or am I mistaken?

People often say that an increase of 0.1 bar in boost pressure corresponds to an increase of 1 bar in compression.

tim27 wrote:

Hi, 180 horsepower from a 110 horsepower TDI? That's a whopping 80% more power. I always thought that the crankcase was designed to handle up to approximately 300 Nm. With 180 horsepower, that should be around 400 Nm, or am I mistaken?

"How do you know it's 400 Nm? It depends on the torque curve!"
Calculate approximately how many Nm of torque are present at 150 horsepower and 4200 RPM.

150 horsepower with AFN/AHF engines, for example, is available as a Stage 1 kit http://shop.dieselschrauber.de.

tim27 wrote:

People often say that an increase of 0.1 bar in boost pressure corresponds to an increase of 1 bar in compression.

"Who said that?"

Best regards, Rainer.

Hi,

The TDI engine produces 350 Nm of torque.

text
This is copied directly from the text.

"...Ultimately, things are getting heated around a little engine that delivers 135 kW at 4000 rpm and provides its maximum torque of 350 Nm already at 2500 rpm!"

I also heard about an AFN engine that's supposedly being driven around in our area, and it's said to have 560 Nm of torque (212 hp).
Unfortunately, it's just hearsay. But the VW Motorsport racing TDI also has similar values (204 hp).

Greetings,
Thomas.

Hello,
I once read in a car magazine that increasing the pressure by 0.1 bar results in a 1-bar increase in compression, while they were testing chip tuning for diesel engines.

Naja 350Nm bei 180PS, da habe ich etwas mehr erwartet. OK das war mal ein 110PS Motor und betrachtet mann (was ich davon ausgehe) das die Abgaswerte noch eingehalten werden dann ist das schon OK. Von der Temp. würde ich sagen das die im griff sind aber was ist den mit dem Gehäuse? HWhat does that mean?


Best regards,

Hello everyone,

I've also been thinking about installing a larger turbocharger myself!
I have a construction manual for the VW Motorsport TDI engine, and they actually specify that with a boost pressure of 2.53 bar , it can produce over 400 Nm with almost no modifications to the crankshaft (using Mahle pistons) for the conversion.

Best regards, Holger.

Hi,

I assume the construction manual isn't a PDF or something similar?
It would definitely be interesting to see what all VW Motorsport has changed. I would really appreciate it if you could post that.
(Of course, not if it's a book or booklet.)

Greetings,
Thomas.

AHF, bin im Moment bei 150PS und 340 Nm (siehe langer 5Gang). Ab nächster Wcohe geht es weiter nach Oben. Der Ladedruck liegt im Moment bei 1,1 Bar. Wir werden auf dem Prüstand Testläufe mit bis 1,4 Bar fahren und das MSW bis 4500Umin komplett offen lassen. Da bei der zu erwartenden Leistung die Standfestigkeit nicht geopfert werden soll wird diese 'elektronische' Ausbaustufe schaltbar, soll heißen ein Programm für lange und schnell Fahrten und das zweite Programm für Einsätze die sich aber auf maximal 15min Vollgas beschränken, da danach der Turbo überhitzt und die VTG festzugehen droht. Über einen zusätzlichen Ladeluftkühler wurde auch schon nachgedacht (vorne auf der Fahrerseite). Wer dazu Infos hat immer her damit. In Sachen Turbo wird der jetzige gefahren bis er das zeitliche segnet, danach wird wohl umgerüstet. Ich werde mich mal um Daten und Bilder der TDI Turbos der neueren Generation kümmern (liegen hier genügend rum ) Wer an einem bestimmten Turbo Intersse hat soll sich bitte melden. Die Turbos sind neu bzw. jung gebraucht. DeThe price is around 250 to 400 euros.

Regards,
Claus.