TDI Upgrades: Stronger Turbocharger Weights

Hello everyone,

I'm a bit late (due to vacation), but happy New Year to you all.

Regarding the situation with joergs' departure (which I regret both personally and because of his knowledge), I'm not really understanding what happened. Have any threads or posts been deleted? Or have I missed something?
Instead of going into all the details again here, I would appreciate an email or a private message that clarifies things.


But let's get to the main topic:
Does anyone here know the logic behind the curb weight values for the different TDI models?

I still understand it with the Golf 3: The AHU and AFN engines have the same curb weight (1120 kg without the driver).
It also makes sense, because the constructive differences in detail between the engines, as well as the use of discs instead of drums at the rear, should not result in significant weight differences.

For the Golf 4, a 5 kg difference in weight (90 hp = 1199 kg, 110 hp = 1204 kg) is negligible.
(It's already a significant weight difference compared to the 3-series, but that's a different topic.)

However, the difference between the PD engines with 100 hp (5-speed) and 130 hp (6-speed) seems quite strange in the Golf 4, Ibiza, and Polo.
Golf 4: 1210 kg or 1226 kg = a difference of 16 kg.
Ibiza: 1142 kg or 1192 kg = a difference of 50 kg.
Polo: 1115 kg or 1155 kg = a difference of 40 kg.
(All of them have disc brakes all around. Both Polos come standard with ESP (Electronic Stability Program), while both Ibizas only have traction control as standard.)

Both Golf 4 models come with 15-inch wheels from the factory, while the Ibiza and Polo have 14-inch wheels with a 100 hp engine, and 15-inch wheels with a 130 hp engine.

The 16 kg weight difference in the Golf 4 could be due to the transmission, but does a 6-speed transmission actually weigh 16 kg more than a 5-speed?
Or is the 130cc engine also a few kilograms heavier than the 100cc engine? But in which parts does this extra weight lie?

The larger wheels are likely to add extra weight to the 130 models of the Polo and Ibiza - but about 30 kg in total, which is 7 kg per wheel .
I'm more willing to accept 10 kg for all wheels, but where do the remaining approximately 20 kg extra come from in the 130 HP Ibiza or Polo?
According to the catalog, the equipment of the respective "base models" is identical for both the 100 and 130 horsepower versions.
Does anyone know what makes the 130 horsepower Polos and Ibizas so much heavier than the 100 horsepower versions?

I know these questions are actually quite trivial in everyday driving.
However, I'm still interested, partly because of the general "heaviness" of our cars.

I'm not sure how it works exactly with Golf and other models, but for example, with the Audi A4, the 130 TDI model comes with air conditioning as standard, while the 100 HP model does not. Perhaps the larger engines simply include a few features that are extras on the smaller ones.

Best regards,

Hello Ulf, welcome back .

You're probably already thinking about how you're going to put your future Polo on a diet?

What about the entire drivetrain of the more powerful engines? Is it perhaps reinforced and therefore heavier? I'm thinking of things like the clutch, drive shafts, stabilizer, etc. Maybe even a different suspension system?

I also suspect stronger stabilizer bars, a larger braking system, and thicker drive shafts, etc.
"It's all about the components that handle the torque and transfer it safely to the road. The aspect that 'wacken' mentioned could also be relevant. Often, larger engines come with more features from the factory, so it's worth checking that out!"

wacken wrote:

I don't know exactly how it works with Golf and similar models, but for example, with the Audi A4, the 130 TDI model comes with air conditioning as standard, while the 100 HP engine does not. Perhaps the larger engines simply have a few features that are extras on the smaller ones.

Hi,

The equipment is the same; I already mentioned that.

DocSyndor wrote:

You're probably already thinking about how to put your future Polo on a diet?

How do you even come up with such things ?

Quote:

What about the complete drivetrain of the more powerful engines? Is it perhaps reinforced and therefore heavier? I'm thinking, for example, of the clutch, drive shafts, stabilizer, etc. Maybe even a different suspension?

It's conceivable, but wouldn't similar weight differences also be found in the Golf 4? However, in that case, a 30 horsepower increase only results in a 16 kg weight increase, with the same wheels.

I estimate that the 15" wheels instead of 14" on the Ibiza and Polo would add a total of 10 kilograms. This would mean 26 kilograms more for the 130 model, on top of the 16 kilograms more that the Golf 4 already has.
That leaves the difference compared to the 40 or 50 extra kilograms of the 130 hp versions of the Polo and Ibiza, as stated in the catalog, and it's precisely those 14 or 24 "unexplained" kilograms that I'm interested in.

...which I don't understand:
'In various Ibiza TDI models, even with the same engine power and equipment, the curb weight can vary, sometimes regardless of whether the car was manufactured in Germany or imported from another EU country.'
'For example, my Ibiza weighs 1,287 kg when empty, while the description in English states 'full tank including driver (75 kg?)'. My car comes from the Netherlands, but other Ibiza TDIs from the Netherlands weigh only 1,217 kg or even 1,192 kg with the same equipment and engine.'
....is already very confusing!!
Regards,
Monchi.

Hi Ulf,

Quote:

Both Golf 4 models come with 15" wheels from the factory, while the Ibiza and Polo have 14" wheels with a 100 hp engine, and 15" wheels with a 130 hp engine.

How about the braking system?
I highly doubt that both the Polo models have the same braking system. There's a reason why the 130 model comes with 15-inch wheels and the 100 model with 14-inch wheels. Larger brake discs and calipers also add a significant amount of weight.
Is there anything different about the cooling system in the two versions?
The 130 model (as far as I remember) has a larger turbo. How much extra weight will that add? It's probably not much, but even small things can make a difference.

Bertil wrote:

What about the braking system? I find it hard to believe that both the Polo models have the same braking system. There's a reason why the 130 model comes with 15-inch wheels and the 100 model with 14-inch wheels. Larger brake discs and calipers also add a significant amount of weight. Is there anything different about the cooling system in the two versions? The 130 model (as far as I remember) has a larger turbo. How much more weight will it add? It's probably not much, but even small things add up.

Hi Bertil,

You are right about the brakes (which I hadn't realized before): apparently, the Ibiza and Polo models with a 130 horsepower engine require 15-inch wheels due to the brake system.

Regarding the cooling system, I would like to (once again) point out the "mere" 16 kg difference in the Golf 4, which naturally could include a larger radiator or similar components.

The charger of the 130 model... hmm, it's probably a bit larger and therefore probably a bit heavier, but it also falls under the category of "small livestock" and must also be included in the 16 kg limit of the Golf 4.

I attribute these 16 kg mostly to the 6-speed gearbox, so let's say gearbox 2 kg, turbocharger kg, cooling system +3 kg.

For the Polo and Ibiza models, we can add an estimated 10 kg for 15-inch wheels all around, and a generously estimated 8 kg for larger brakes compared to the 100 hp version.

That would mean an extra (16 + 10 + 8 =) 34 kg of weight for the 130 horsepower Polo and Ibiza compared to the 100 horsepower version - well, I should actually say "roughly estimated."

According to the catalog, the difference is 40 kg (for the Polo) or 50 kg (for the Ibiza), as mentioned.

But at least we've now identified a few things that probably explain most of the extra weight.

Thank you for your contributions so far... and please note that corrections with more reliable data and further ideas are always welcome.


Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Addendum:"
According to the German manual, the last model of the Ibiza (Jan's model) has between 90 and 110 horsepower, and weighs 29 kg (for reference: the Golf 3 weighed 0 kg!).
The 110 Ibi, however, is the sport version, with 15" alloy wheels, side skirts, and a larger roof spoiler... yes, the extra 29 kg is quite sporty .

@ulf:

The versions with 130 horsepower have a significantly larger clutch than the 100 horsepower versions.
In addition to that, there's a 15" spare tire ...

Differences in the Ibiza model include:
Ibiza TDI Sport, 96 kW: 16-inch alloy wheels, standard EDS (Electronic Differential Lock) + TCS (Traction Control System), 6-speed gearbox.
Ibiza TDI Sport, 74 kW: 15-inch alloy wheels, no EDS+TCS (Electronic Differential Lock + Traction Control System), 5-speed gearbox.

...I don't know exactly what's different about the engine (larger turbocharger, larger intercooler, etc.???).
.....my current Ibiza, by the way, is also equipped with 8 airbags (front and rear airbags)...I don't know how much that weighs!!
Regards,
Monchi.

MONCHI wrote:

Differences in the Ibiza include: Ibiza TDI Sport, 96 kW: 16-inch alloy wheels, standard EDS (Electronic Differential Lock) + TCS (Traction Control System), 6-speed gearbox. Ibiza TDI Sport 74KW = 15-inch alloy wheels, no EDS+TCS, 5th gear

.
Hi,

Then it seems you have different catalogs than I do... Could you please provide the empty weights for "your models"?

Hmm... I'm afraid the only way to get clarity is to weigh it.

Here are some ideas that come to mind for generating weight from PS (presumably referring to PlayStation):

- water cooler
- oil cooler
- fill volumes
- LLK size
- braking system (the powerful engines usually have larger brake discs at the front).
- tires & rims
- transmission & clutch
- drive shafts
- soundproofing
- For glossy brochures, please specify the type of measurement! (with/without driver, etc.)
- Non-optional add-on.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Cu Gremlin'

Hi,

The Dutch parts catalog for my 6K also includes those 29 kilograms, and the "sport version" probably isn't the explanation. Mine is a Signo, not a sport model, and therefore has the same equipment as the 90 hp Ibiza. This configuration was only available in the Netherlands; in Germany, you had to buy the "sport" package if you wanted the 110 hp engine.

Here, the argument about the brakes might come up again, as these are 15-inch wheels, and 14-inch wheels are not allowed. I don't know what it looks like on the 90 model, but Ulf, you can probably figure that out with a quick look.

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

Again, the argument about the brakes might come up, because they are 15-inch wheels, and 14 inches is not allowed. I don't know what it looks like on the 90 model, but you, Ulf, can probably figure that out with a quick look.

Hi Jan,

Christel's ALH-Ibi has 14" wheels and drum brakes on the rear.

I'm just surprised that the Golf 3 with a 110 hp engine was released to the public with such "small" brakes, and that it can even handle 14-inch wheels, despite a curb weight of 1630 kg.
How heavy can your ASV-Ibi be?

Hi Ulf,

According to the documents, the capacity is 1585 kg, which doesn't leave much room for payload considering the registered weight of 1240 kg. However, there are 4 disc brakes, which provide excellent braking performance. Last year, during a vacation, I briefly had 600 kg of UNBraked weight on it, and I didn't really notice it much.

What is the maximum permissible gross vehicle weight of the ALH Ibiza?

Best regards,

Jan.

Jan6K wrote:

According to the documents, 1585 kilograms, . . .

Hi Jan,
That's roughly what I was thinking: less torque than the Golf 3, but bigger brakes... although I definitely don't consider my brakes to be inadequate.
However, I haven't yet driven it with a seriously loaded trailer, let alone do I have a tow hitch.

Quote:

What is the permissible gross vehicle weight of the ALH Ibiza?

1556 kg: again, 29 less than the ASV-Ibi. Somehow, even in this chaos, there's a remnant of consistency .