5-Speed vs. 4-Speed Transmissions: Pros & Cons

Hello,

I have a 1987 Jetta TD (with a JR engine) that has a 4+E transmission. I'm curious about the differences (fuel consumption, acceleration, top speed) compared to the standard 5-speed transmission for the TD.
Mine reaches approximately 160 km/h at around 4000 RPM. The red zone on the tachometer starts at 4500 RPM.

What about the transmission with a large language model (LLM)? What kind of gearbox is used in it? And what is its maximum speed?

Regards,

Hendrik.

There is no 4+E or 5-speed option!

I don't know who started this rumor – probably Volkswagen itself.

In the Golf 2 (also known as the Jetta) with the JR engine, there was essentially only ONE transmission option: the 4T. Alternatively, there might have been the 4S, which had the same gear ratios but a 7% shorter axle ratio (this was also used in the 54 HP JP model).

If I now screw a knob with the marking "4+" onto it, nothing will change regarding the translation .

m;

The PS version of the SB/RA (which is the 80 hp TD LLK model) also only has a 4-stroke engine!

Source for all of this: "Jetzt helf ich mir selbst" (Now I'll help myself), Volume 117.

There is no 4+E or 5-speed !!!

I don't know who started this rumor – probably Volkswagen itself.

In the Golf 2 (also known as the Jetta) with a JR engine, there was essentially only ONE gearbox available: the 4T (or possibly the 4S, which had the same gear ratios but a 7% shorter axle ratio - this was also used in the 54 HP JP model).

If I now screw a knob with the marking '4+' onto it, nothing will change regarding the translation .

m;

The PS version of the SB/RA (which is the 80 hp TD LLK model) also only has a 4-stroke engine!

Source for all of this: 'Jetzt helf ich mir selbst' (Now I'll help myself), Volume 117.

@dieselmartin @ Euro

Sorry, that's not quite right, . I think that at least regarding such information, you can give the rabbit the phrase 'Now I'm doing it myself!'

@Dieselmartin: Sorry, but I experienced that firsthand.
I drove a Jetta TD (70 hp) until 2002; it was the 1987 model, but probably manufactured towards the end of 1986.

I bought the car with approximately 63,000 kilometers on the odometer and drove it for a long time. Initially, the transmission was fine, except for the fifth gear.
Das Auto lief bis KM Stand 380.000KM (ca). It had...
1: Shift knob for a 4+E configuration AND also a transmission with a 4+E configuration.
Please don't ask me about any license plate codes.

Okay, so the actual fuel consumption, according to my records, was probably between 6.8 and 7.5 liters per 100 kilometers when driving on the highway with a nearly full tank. However, I was pushing it pretty hard, and the top speed was around 170 km/h. It couldn't go any faster; the fifth gear wasn't geared low enough.

I then experienced a transmission failure at approximately 22,000 km, and afterwards, a 5-speed transmission from a Golf was installed. It's supposed to be from an 'amateur' Golf (I don't know if that makes a difference).
'After that, it definitely ran around 180-185 km/h, pulled much better overall, comparable to my then-acquaintance's TD Golf, which had the same engine and always ran at about 185 km/h . It was just strange luck; it felt like a completely different car afterwards.'

The old transmission with the 'E-shift' would normally accelerate in 4th gear, but using the 'E-shift' in 5th gear was sometimes quite difficult.

The version with the intercooler was originally registered with 80 horsepower. I had always considered installing a used one, but that became less of a priority for me personally after I started looking into getting a new transmission.

Okay, I'm signing off now; we still have work to do.

We want to go to the North Sea for a week; hopefully, we won't be swept away by the current.
Goodbye:smash:
Thorsten.

Quote:

Please don't ask me about any license plate codes...

Yes, because "4+E" doesn't appear anywhere in the actual translation tables.

That's definitely just sales talk – if you can give me a gearbox code, then we can see...

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Here's another point to add as further support for my "theory":

If this "4+E" stuff isn't just marketing hype, why are the shift knobs listed in the parts catalog without any specific connection to a particular transmission?

The "4+E" mindset is so ingrained in people that recently, an older gentleman at VW inquired about the G4 to see if the 6th gear was a "normal" gear. What else could it be? Maybe one for driving sideways???

I could have definitely used a sixth gear in my G2 with the 4S transmission (marked as 4+E). And they easily reached their top speed in fifth gear - which is quite the opposite of the stories about the "4+E" transmissions, where it's said that the extra gear is too long and that you only reach top speed in fourth.

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hello,

It's possible that there wasn't a true '4+E' trim level for the Golf/Jetta 2, but it definitely existed for the Golf/Jetta 1.
'I also experienced a gearbox failure with my Golf 1 GTI Pirelli at around 200,000 km and then installed a 4+E gearbox from a Jetta. The maximum speed was only reached in 4th gear and was about 5 km/h lower than the standard GTI gearbox (GKB: 9A). At higher speeds, the top speed decreased slightly because it only revved to 4500 rpm. After tuning to approximately 140 horsepower, you could use the 5th gear after reaching the limit of 4th. Sometimes, going downhill with a tailwind, it would reach its maximum speed on the speedometer. This caused quite a reaction from some BMW drivers on the Autobahn.'

As I said,

If someone could provide me with actual data from both a "4+E" and a "true 5-speed" gearbox, then we could talk about facts.

Until then, they are just marketing terms.

"He's still wanting a 6th gear in his 1Z variant with the CTN, or at least the ASD (Automatic Speed Limiter) from the 1Z limousine."

Hello,

Okay, so the GKB models 'FJ' and 'FH' should have been 4+E versions intended for Golf/Jetta/Scirocco 1 era vehicles.

For example, the '7G' and '9A' were installed in the 1st generation GTI.

Do you believe it now?

I'm going to try and figure out the gear ratios of the transmissions.

There would have to be a significant jump towards a longer distance for the e-bike's range.

And that shouldn't be present in "standard" 5-speed transmissions.

We can agree on that, right?

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

I completely agree with you.

'If I can still remember correctly, the 5th gear ratio for the 1st generation GTI transmission should be 0.985, and the 4+E transmission's 5th gear ratio is 0.711.'

... and otherwise, everything the same?

As I mentioned, I had the 4S and didn't find the E-ten to be too long at all - especially since the JP was only available with the 4S (or a 5-speed where the 5th gear was shorter than the 4th gear of the 4-speed).

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hello,

Regarding the grandfather and the question about the 6-speed transmission for a VW Golf 4, the old man wasn't entirely wrong.
My Golf 4 AJM with 115 horsepower and a common rail engine reaches its top speed (195 km/h) in 6th gear at around 3500-3600 RPM. I can also achieve that speed in 5th gear, but then the RPMs are above 4000.
This is actually ideal for later tuning, as there's still a margin of up to 400 RPM before reaching the maximum speed (Pmax) at 4000 RPM.

The 115 horsepower PD Passat engine consistently reaches over 4000 RPM, regardless of whether it's in the 5th or 6th gear.

Very simple:

The 4+E reaches its top speed in the 4th gear, while the 5G does so in the 5th gear.

We first had a Golf2 4+E (75 hp), and then one with a 5-speed gearbox. The 'E' version's top gear was extremely long, almost like an overdrive, while the 5-speed is slightly shorter.

My Jetta with a 4+E and JR engine (turbo diesel) only reaches its top speed in the 'E' gear; in 4th gear, it would have to rev much too high.
This applies to going downhill, on a flat surface, and also slightly uphill.

The engine speed is approximately 4500 RPM, and the maximum speed is 170 [units - e.g., km/h or mph].
The rev counter starts at 4500 with a dashed RED line, and at 5000, the area is completely marked in RED. I simply don't want to go above 4500 because it hurts my heart .
There's still some room for improvement in the pedal work at 4500 [presumably referring to a tempo or speed].

Regards,
Hendrik.

The 4+E transmissions – as mentioned above, with the maximum speed achieved in 4th gear and 5th gear serving as an 'economy' gear – were, in my opinion, only available for gasoline engines at VAG. In diesel vehicles (e.g., the Audi 80 TD from 1983 onwards), standard 5-speed transmissions were installed to better utilize the narrower engine speed range.

Regards,
0588.578

My acquaintance installed a 4+E transmission (a 4-speed manual with an electric overdrive) in his Audi 80 from 1984, which originally had a 4-speed manual. Interestingly, the first four gears have the same gear ratios!
The fuel consumption has decreased significantly: 7.3 liters per 100 kilometers!