Window Repair: Early Signs of Failure?

Hello everyone,

@Ulf: Yes, I know, you don't have those kinds of problems with casement windows...

The day before yesterday, there was a construction site on the city highway where they were carelessly spilling tar. To get rid of the smell from the car, I lowered both windows halfway and then raised them again shortly after.

Ideally, I wanted the left side to stop about 2 cm above the halfway point. Since this all happened at 80 km/h, around 0 degrees Celsius, and in a light drizzle, I initially experimented with the controls.

It went down further, and up as well, but only to a certain point. Then I completely lowered it, which was accompanied by a slight cracking sound at the very bottom. After that, it went up smoothly, all the way to the top.

To avoid experiencing that again during a trip, I tested it while stationary afterward – it resulted in the same error. A little manual assistance got it past the sticking point, and in subsequent attempts, it only caught slightly in the same spot. After about 10 tries, it started working properly again.

However, it's noticeable that the panel has about 2 cm of vertical play when moved by hand in the partially open position. Initially, exploiting this play also triggered the error. However, the motor always pushes the panel firmly against the stops, so this play has no influence on the closing behavior or safety.

I'm wondering, however, if that's supposed to be the case, or if there's something wrong with the mechanism. For safety's sake, I haven't tried anything with the other window yet - but I'll check later to see if it exhibits the same behavior.

What do you think? Could it have just been ice in the mechanism?

The FH units do not have any comfort functions; there are only buttons for up and down, and they only operate as long as the button is held. This model does not have any "up/down" functions that can be learned (I have tried repeatedly following the instructions, but the instructions also state that this feature is optional).

Best regards,

Jan.

So, in my old Golf, the plastic bracket that holds the window broke (in the older Golfs, it was made of plastic). When I tried to open the window, there was a loud bang, and the window came down. If your Ibiza has a similar faulty part, it's possible that the window has slipped out of its guides. You should be able to tell by gently wiggling the window. If the 6K still has the same mechanism as the 6N Polo (I used to own an AEX), then I can say that if the wire that runs in an "8" shape breaks, you wouldn't be able to move the window anymore.

Try wiggling it; if it moves, remove the door panels.

Jan6K wrote:

@Ulf: Yes, I know, you don't have those kinds of problems with casement windows...

Quote:

To avoid experiencing something like that again during the ride, I tested it while stationary afterward - it resulted in the same error. A little help with my hand got it past the dead point, and in subsequent attempts, it only slightly caught in the problematic area, but after about 10 times, it worked properly again. What do you think? Could it have just been ice in the mechanism?

I doubt that, because it should have become noticeable during the shutdown process.

And if the 6K-FH were susceptible to ice buildup, etc., that could fall into the mechanics, I would be surprised that there has never been a post about such symptoms in the Ibiza forum (or have I missed something ?).

I suspect there are signs of the mechanism starting to break down, and that by repeatedly moving it up and down ten times, you may have pulverized a small, broken-off piece.

-> If you need part numbers for crankshafts, I might be able to help you .

Hi,

Quote:

If the Ibiza has the same type of window mechanism, it's possible that the window has slipped out of its track. You should be able to notice this by gently wiggling the window back and forth.

"There's no play in it... the window is very firmly seated, it just has about 2 cm of vertical movement. The right window behaves exactly the same way, it feels exactly the same. Therefore, it seems like everything is fine - it feels very much like a normal operating range (they even seem to have crank windows, in my opinion)."

How does it work with you guys regarding the electric front windows? If the window is halfway down, can you manually move the glass up or down by about 1-2 cm?

Quote:

I suspect there are signs of the mechanism starting to break down, and that by repeatedly moving it up and down ten times, you may have pulverized a small, broken-off piece.

It felt less like a sudden change and more like gradually making something that was initially difficult to move, progressively easier. It's worth noting that with the current weather, I only open the windows very rarely, mostly only in parking garages.

Quote:

If you need part numbers for crankshaft flanges, I might be able to help you.

Thanks... but that's not necessary. If anything really breaks, I'll fix it so that it lasts until the engines burn out.

I personally find that Ibi openers are less prone to issues than those that can automatically raise or lower, because if I release the switch when I hear a noise, the motor stops immediately and doesn't desperately try to force the window to its extreme position.

Best regards,

Jan.

You can override the automatic window opening. Just briefly press the button in the opposite direction, and the window will stop. I think it's really great, especially in parking garages, one press and it opens.

'I also experienced this problem with two different Ibiza models, both manufactured in 1998.'
It felt exactly like what happened with yours, and after about a month (it was summer, so the windows were being opened and closed a lot), the mechanism eventually got stuck in the down position and wouldn't go up anymore.
The problem is that a ridiculously small plastic piece is responsible for securely holding the glass in its track, and one of the plastic hooks simply broke off. This causes the glass to sit slightly crooked in the track and get stuck somewhere on the metal frame (hence the jolt). It then bends back into place and works until the other side (the second hook) breaks off. At that point, the glass either remains stuck in the track (if you're lucky) and only moves downwards, or, if you're unlucky, the glass falls out of the track and breaks.

As I mentioned, this happened to two Ibiza models I owned, both from 1998. A friend of mine experienced the same issue with his Ibiza, but his was a 1995 model and it was a gasoline-powered Cupra.
'Back then, I also read in a Seat forum that this mechanism is extremely prone to failure and that it seems to happen quite often.'

My advice is to remove the side panel as quickly as possible so you can see which guide I'm referring to. If the 'breakage' isn't too severe, you might be able to fix it with a bit of skill and some screws and nuts. The right side panel survived without any problems last summer.

Just to mention, the experiences described here come from Ibiza models of the 6K or 6K1 series.
These plastic holders were also installed in the Polo 6N.
In your picture, I also see an Ibiza. I always thought that was the GP99 model series, starting in 1999, but I don't know for sure. Do you have a 6K or the facelift model ?

P.S.
It also took me a certain amount of time before I noticed any play at the back end of the disc.


Best regards,

Hi,

If a hook is missing from two of the mounting points, the disc should theoretically be able to tilt slightly in a semi-open position – but that's not the case, it's really stuck tight. The play is only in the vertical direction, nowhere else.

My Ibiza is indeed a GP01 (which it can't be anything else given its 2001 production year), but since it's just a facelift, it's still classified as a 6K – it even has a 6K chassis number. However, in terms of TDI technology, it's quite different from the older 6K because the GP01 uses the 038 engines from the Golf 4, while the older 6K uses the 028 engines from the Golf 3. The rest of the technology is the same, which leads to this strange design where the intercooler is located on the left side in the direction of travel (like in the Golf 3 or the older 6K), while the outlet and inlet of the intake manifold are on the right side, as in the Golf 4. Therefore, the pressure hoses go around twice... a brilliant idea.

It needs to be determined whether the power windows in the GP01 are the same as those in the older 6K model. I'll look into that.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi,

Okay, a little smarter now:

The left-hand front door hinges (as a complete part) for the older 6K model (manufactured in 1998) are designated as 6K3 837 401 B, while those from the GP01 model (manufactured in 2002) are designated as either 6K3 837 401 G or 6K3 837 401 H, depending on the connection configuration.

It sounds like an improvement...

Using the forum search, you can find quite a few reports and known issues for the Golf 4, although it's questionable whether this applies to the GP01. Tilting was also an issue there, but in my opinion, the windshield should be able to be "tilted."

Currently, I'm seeing the biggest issue in vertical mode – which is strange because it's happening on both windows, even though the left one has been used much more and the right one has never had any problems before (and the left one has only had the issue once).

Best regards,

Jan.

Hello Jan,

"I drove exactly "your" car for almost two years (from 40,000 to 86,000 kilometers). Apart from the window mechanism, there were no problems during that time. However, it broke down twice: The first time (right after the purchase, also in winter), the window suddenly stopped working. A cracking sound when pressing the window button, accompanied by a brief, simultaneous dimming of the headlights, led me to hope that at least the window motor was still working. Something was blocking it. With a friend (a Peugeot mechanic with "window mechanism" experience), I opened the door panel. The cables that are supposed to move the "lifting carriage" were stuck and tangled. My friend then quickly opened the small casing (where the cables are wound in opposite directions), rethreaded everything, and lubricated it beforehand. This fixed the problem permanently."
Ein Jahr später tauchte dann ein ähnliches Problem wie bei Dir auf. Die Scheibe ging nicht mehr ganz zu. die fehlenden Zentimeter musste ich manuell nachhelfen. Dies war auf ein leichtes unmerkliches Verkanten der Scheibe zurückzuführen, dessen Ursache Sunny oben beschreibt. Tatsächlich hat der GP01 immer noch diese unstabilen kleinen "Plastikreiter", von denen einer bei mir angebrochen war. Auch wir haben damals mit einer Schraube und einer Unterlegscheibe nachgebessert, was dann ein dreiviertel Jahr bis über den Verkauf gehalten hat (und vielleicht noch hält?). Außerdem habe ich damals eifrig recherchiert und (sofern ich mich richtig entsinne) rausbekommen, dass (jeweils im Gegensatz zum Golf) beim Ibiza die komplette Einheit gekauft werden muss und leider auch keine verbesserte Ausführung existiert. Sunnys Vorschlag rechtzeitig nachzusehen und evtl. per Improvisieren nachzubessern bevor noch mehr zu Bruch geht, kann ich daher nur unterstreichen. Vorsicht übrigens beim Abhebeln der Plastikabdeckung um den Türgriff. Die bricht sofort. Hilfreich ist ein möglichst breiter Keil. Sollte die Abdeckung doch brechen, ist Sie wenigstens günstig. Ca. I paid 7 euros.

Regards,
Joachim.

wutz wrote:

The automatic startup feature... I think it's really great, especially in parking garages, just press a button and it goes.

Hm... Would you still think it's a good idea if your elFH parking garage played without you being there?
http://www.polo9n.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6864

HI.

Okay, I can confirm that with Seat, this part is only available as a complete unit, and it was incredibly expensive. I don't remember the exact price anymore, but it was so shocking that I immediately deleted the number from my memory to look for an alternative solution.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a more stable solution. So, I had no choice but to 'patch it together' again. It's working for now, but let's see how long it lasts.

Whoever has a more stable version built will definitely find some happy customers .



My Ibiza is indeed a GP01 (which it can't be anything else given its 2001 production year), but since it's just a facelift, it still falls under the 6K designation - it even has a 6K chassis number. However, in terms of TDI technology, it's quite different from the older 6K, because the GP01 uses the 038 engines from the Golf 4, while the older 6K uses the 028 engines from the Golf 3. The rest of the technology is identical, which leads to the strange design where the intercooler is located on the left side in the direction of travel (like in the Golf 3 or the older 6K), while the outlet and inlet of the intake manifold are on the right side, as is the case with the Golf 4. Therefore, the pressure hoses go around the corner twice... a brilliant idea.


It's quite funny what engineers sometimes come up with .

Best regards,

Hi,

@Ulf: Nothing would happen with the Ibi... if you turn the ignition on, the power windows would immediately stop working.

@Sunny and @Joachim:

I was just looking through the Polo manual, but the picture there is so uninformative that the author probably doesn't even understand what the actual problem is. Based on your reports, I'll definitely take it apart once it gets a little warmer (working on things outside is always a problem in the winter) and try to fix it.

I still have two questions about that.

Okay, here's the translation:

"For the GP01, removing the door panel likely works the same way as with all other VAG cars: carefully pry off the trim piece on the door handle, then loosen the screws there, and probably also the ones at the front, and then remove the entire panel. Is there anything else to loosen on the mirror triangle, or have I forgotten something? (Disconnecting the cables is obvious...)"

Okay, here's the translation:

"Regarding the problem itself, it's hard to imagine how it works without disassembly. I'm currently picturing it with rails on the left and right where the disc moves. There's a kind of metal "U" at the bottom that supports the lower edge of the disc, and side cables that grip the metal rail and drive the aforementioned capsule in the opposite direction. Then there are plastic protrusions that connect the disc to the metal rail at the bottom, and is that what the issue is? Or are we talking about the drive mechanisms that are moved by the cables? Does the disc have holes, or is it simply clamped by these parts?"

A photo or drawing would probably be helpful there – I will definitely take some when I disassemble it.

"In the Polo manual, it states that the disc is connected to the fixed rail with two screws, which should not be tightened too much (from model year 99 onwards, so 6N2). I suspect that this is not the case with the Ibiza, and that the desired state is actually the opposite. Do you remember what type of screws would be best for this? My guess is that they should be thick and short - is that right? You don't necessarily have something like that in your toolbox, so I want to get them beforehand."

Best regards,

Jan.

Hello Jan,

Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact details: But both plastic covers probably need to be removed. The smaller one around the door handle should be removed first. There might have been screws hidden under the covers. We also detached the door opening linkage, directly at the door handle. Furthermore, I believe the door knob was unscrewed, and the electrical connections (for the electric folding function and mirrors) were unplugged (connectors are available). The entire clipped-on door panel then tends to angle upwards.

My friend, in fact, had completely removed the entire window regulator mechanism from the door (without the window, of course, which was secured at the top with a wedge) and reconnected the cables for testing. Otherwise, you only get very incomplete views. I don't think the metal "U" that you're talking about exists. That's why there are cases where the window crashes all the way down into the door if both plastic holders fail.
Unfortunately, I no longer remember what kind of screw we used, but I imagine there might be better and perhaps more durable DIY solutions available.

Regards,
And a happy New Year to everyone.
Joachim.

Hello Jan,

As far as I know, the thing about the door panels was like this:
The plastic cover around the door opener can be 'popped' off with a small screwdriver; it's just clipped in place.
Below, you'll find a small Phillips-head screw. If you unscrew it, you can relatively easily detach the opener mechanism from the rod that remains in the door.
Door handles have a standard internal thread and can be unscrewed counter-clockwise. Once the handle is removed, the remaining threaded shaft can be 'pushed in' using compressed air, which will make it easier to remove the cardboard backing.
Here's the translation:

'At the door handle, pry off the plastic cover to reveal two large Phillips-head screws underneath. After that, as far as I remember, the rest should just be clipped in place.'
I also removed the reflector triangle (also clipped it off) and the window seal (on the inside), and then everything seemed to pop out.
The angle: something like this, slightly upwards with a bit of feeling, is already quite good.


My tip is to really try this at room temperature. I even had 2 or 3 of those stupid plastic clips break off when it was only 20 degrees Celsius.

Don't forget to disconnect the plug for the mirror adjustment, etc., before you permanently remove the cardboard from the door.

Even after removing all the screws, the cardboard could only be removed with 'gentle force' and leverage.

Regarding the clips:
I believe there were 4 or 5 on the top and bottom, and 2 or 3 on the left and right.


Regarding the actual issue, I just found a picture on my hard drive of a piece of Zübehör FH equipment that I later sold on E***. This might help you visualize things better, and it seems your initial assumption was slightly off.
I'm just having a problem, how do I get this picture in here?
I can't upload anything to any server; I'm an IT illiterate.

So, if you can tell me how to get this image in here, you will certainly become smarter .

Best regards,

Hi,

First of all, thank you both very much. That sounds absolutely feasible, although waiting until spring might also be a sensible idea, considering the fragility of the situation, if there's enough time left.

It's probably not possible to do that with the central locking system, because the driver's side door only locks when the door is closed, which isn't possible when you're removing it (unless you "trick" it by manually locking the door).

@Sunny: I'll send you a private message about the pictures, and then I'll post them here so everyone can see them.

Best regards, and wishing everyone a happy and healthy new year.

Jan.

Hi everyone,

Here are Sunny's pictures - he still wants to add some comments himself...

I guess you're talking about those rubber clips that move along with the mechanism, right?

Best regards,

Jan.