Warranty Issues & Intermittent Errors: Can You Sue?

Hello everyone,

On January 23, 2004, I purchased my Fabia TDI (ATD, now with 116,000 km, oil change performed according to schedule at 106,000 km - it's time for another one, and all other maintenance has been carried out) from a dealer who offered a 1-year warranty on the engine and transmission.

Yesterday, on my way home from work (85 km), I parked the car. (For the last 5-6 km, I drove slowly as usual, and always warm up and cool down the engine gently.)
Approximately 1.5 hours later, I need to go to the post office. There's no turbo boost until 2000 RPM, providing a naturally aspirated (SDI) driving feel. Above 2000 RPM, the turbo kicks in suddenly.
=> Stopped, turned off the engine (for about 20 seconds), turned the engine back on - same problem.
=> Goal achieved, engine turned off (5 minutes), engine started: no problems.

This morning and on the way home, the performance was as usual.

I contacted the dealer today and raised the issue: If the defect is not immediately apparent or cannot be proven, they are unwilling to take any action.

The symptoms make me think of a possible VTG (ventricular tachycardia), but I can't really investigate that right now due to time constraints... although I'm not entirely sure.

On Friday, I have an appointment at the dealer (regarding some other minor issues), and I'll be able to talk to the master technician.

What is the legal situation regarding this? Would it be beneficial for me if I called again tomorrow and claimed that the problem has reappeared, and that I have a witness to support my claim?

What can I do to hold the dealer accountable even after the warranty period has expired?

First, let's read the error codes. It might already be the culprit.

Otherwise, it will definitely be tight on time. And you can always just waste time to show someone your middle finger.

It could be the throttle valve (VTG), but it could also be the lambda sensor (LMM) or some other loose connection. By the way, it's not that complicated to clean the VTG. Just spray it with WD-40 to loosen it up, then apply copper grease. It can be done in about half an hour.

Problem: The dealer is not an authorized dealer and operates more like a "backyard workshop" (a small, independent dealer). I assume they don't have the appropriate VAG diagnostic equipment. Therefore, I will likely visit an authorized VAG dealership for safety's sake.

To treat the VTG rod, I don't actually need to go up on the platform.

Approximately a year ago, the LMM (lambda sensor) was replaced at my request because it wasn't reaching the maximum speed. It turned out that the clever people who did the repair (after a front-end accident before I bought the car) had blocked the airflow to the intercooler. None of the three VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) workshops figured it out until I accidentally knocked off a panel while washing the car.

Okay, I was at the VAG dealer - the error memory is empty.

Danach noch in der Stadt und bei der Auffahrt auf die AB nach dme Schalten vom 4. in den 5. Gang (bei ca. 2400 U/min) wieder das Problem. Perfect before that.

Even at 2400 RPM, there was no boost, or at least no noticeable power. The instantaneous fuel consumption was 6 liters per 100 km in 5th gear at full throttle (normally 13.3 liters per 100 km).

Idling (engine running), 2 times accelerate to 2500 RPM, then open the hood and fiddle with the MAF sensor - started driving - everything back to normal...

I don't know what caused it this time...

btw- hatte auch die Leerlaufruheregelung wg. eines Ruckelns bei konstanten 1200 U/min im 5. Gang view:

-0.09
2 - 0.07
3 0.07
4 0.07

At idle, with minimal deviations (+/- 0.01) - is this acceptable, or is it more likely a problem due to the signs (positive and negative)?

Hello Bloeckler,

If you have an explicit warranty for the engine, then the dealer is obligated to take action if there is a defect. After all, they guaranteed that the engine was in perfect condition. If they are not able to fix it themselves, they must then entrust the solution of the problem to a specialist company. The resulting costs are then their responsibility. However, you should find out what your deductible is. This is stated in the warranty conditions and usually depends on the age of the vehicle and its mileage.
Given the impending statute of limitations, you should act quickly! While it's possible that the statute of limitations has been suspended because you've been negotiating with the dealer about the defect for some time, you may have to prove this suspension. Having witnesses to the defect is always a good idea!

Regards,
Marcus.

Hi Marcus,

"Over the past few days, I've experienced intermittent power loss, which sometimes disappeared even while driving (without turning off the engine). Also, there has been some slight jerking during acceleration."

Today, I cleaned the mass airflow sensor with brake cleaner because the problem seemed persistent. The result: so far, it's working properly again, and it subjectively feels like it responds better to the accelerator.

The dealer is ordering a new mass airflow sensor for me.

Are there any issues that arise after the warranty period but are related to these symptoms (assuming it wasn't just the mass airflow sensor) that can still be covered under warranty, or would I have to pay for them myself?

Hi Marcus.

Your problem sounds like it might be caused by an issue with the VTG (Variable Transmission Gear) or its power supply.
Inform your dealer (in writing) about the problem and have the error diagnosed at a specialized workshop. They have a guided troubleshooting process for the turbocharger pressure control system. This won't cost a fortune, and you will likely have to pay upfront for the diagnosis at the workshop, but with the workshop's report in hand, you can then confront your local dealer. It's only logical that they should then reimburse you for the cost of the diagnosis.

Definitely inform the seller in writing due to the time pressure, or have them acknowledge the error.

Hi,

'@Hati: No, unfortunately, it's not that simple. First of all, the seller is allowed to look for the defect and try to fix it. If that doesn't work the first time, they have 2 more attempts to fix it. If those attempts also fail, you have the right to a price reduction, a return, or an exchange. If the seller agrees to have a third party investigate the problem, I would ask for WRITTEN confirmation beforehand that the seller will cover the costs. (But that's so incredibly rare, we don't even need to think about it. They'd rather take the car back and try their luck with the next customer.)'

Just my opinion.

Regards,
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Micha'

@Bee: Who or what wants to prevent the owner of the car from having a specialized workshop investigate the problem? You might be right about the seller covering the costs; ultimately, it depends on what is stated in the purchase agreement. In my contract, for example, it states that I am allowed to hire a different specialized workshop, but the costs for that will only be covered after I have inquired with the selling company beforehand.

However, what I consider most important is that the defect must be reported in writing (and this report must be acknowledged) before the warranty period expires.

Anyway, the fact is that the one-year warranty on the engine and transmission expires on Sunday. I will contact the dealer again by phone tomorrow and make it clear that the problem has occurred repeatedly and has not been fixed by tomorrow.

Should I send another fax to have the facts in black and white and send it to him as a precautionary measure?

What should be included in it?

I informed him about the error for the first time on Tuesday evening. He said that he could do something if the error was constantly occurring.

@Hati: The owner is free to do whatever they want with their car. They can take it to any workshop they choose, whether it's a specialized repair shop, a VAG partner, or a small, independent garage. However, they will likely only receive a polite smile if they then request that the costs be covered under warranty or similar circumstances. After all, the party responsible for the warranty must be given the opportunity to fix the problem themselves.

'@bloeckler: You write a letter detailing the problem, etc., and use 'Complaint' as the subject line. Furthermore, your letter should end with short sentences like: 'I therefore demand that you rectify the above-mentioned defects by February 8, 2005.' Then, print the letter twice and go to your dealer (preferably with a harmless-looking witness who says nothing but a friendly 'Good day' and 'Goodbye'). When you are at your dealer, hand him one copy. On the other copy, ask the dealer to sign a confirmation of receipt, e.g.: 'Received a letter of the same content on January 22, 2005.'

It's not your problem if he can't find the intermittent fault; others can. If he can't, you can exchange it, etc. See above.

Regards,
Micha.

P.S.: This is just what I would do if I were you. I have no idea what the legal implications are.

bloeckler:

Good evening.

We can definitely do this, but we need to hurry!

Okay, question 1: Did you purchase the car as a used vehicle from a private individual?

'If so, you have a one-year statutory 'warranty' for used goods, which means the rights that Bee has already described. The downside of the statutory warranty is unfortunately the burden of proof: within the first 6 months (from the purchase), the seller must prove that the defect did not already exist at the time of purchase, meaning everything was okay.
After 6 months, the burden of proof shifts, meaning you have to prove to the seller that the defect in the car existed at the time of the contract. This is often very difficult for the end customer, for example, with cars or laptops.

Okay, now let's get to the heart of the matter.

Do you have an additional warranty from the seller? This must be a separate document, as it is not related to the claims arising from the statutory warranty period, which are covered by the purchase agreement itself.

>>> If so, even better!! A warranty guarantees the functionality of an item, meaning the car must work properly. The burden of proof lies with the seller (legally regulated in §443 of the German Civil Code). By providing a warranty (in the legal sense of the BGB), the seller assures you that the purchased item will function flawlessly during the warranty period. If you haven't misused the item, it shouldn't matter to you how the seller identifies the fault...

In addition to the statutory warranty, there is a warranty statement. Please check if you have a warranty certificate and what exactly it states.

Regards,


P.S. All legal advice provided here is for informational purposes only and does not constitute a guarantee of accuracy.

kapernaum wrote:

bloeckler: Do you have an additional warranty from the seller? This must be a separate document, as it is not related to the statutory warranty claims that arise from the purchase agreement itself.

In addition to the standard warranty, it was noted in handwriting on the contract: 1 year warranty on the engine and transmission.

I would prefer it if the issue could be resolved through the LMM (Large Language Model). However, the dealer is not available in person today. Therefore, I only have the option of using the fax or telephone.

I am invoking the warranty and describing the defects. Will this be sufficient to ensure my safety?

In addition to the standard warranty, it was noted in handwriting on the contract: 1 year warranty on the engine and transmission.



Perfect! Send a fax to the dealer (print out the transmission report!!!) and you're done!
It couldn't be going better; be glad that the seller seems to have absolutely no idea what he's doing from a legal perspective!
If there are any problems, refer to your clearly stated warranty and, if necessary, assert your claim based on the grounds mentioned above.

Best regards,

kapernaum wrote:

bloeckler wrote: In addition to the standard warranty, it was noted in handwriting on the contract: 1 year warranty on the engine and transmission. Perfect! Send a fax to the dealer (print out the transmission report!!!) and you're done! It couldn't be going better; be glad that the seller seems to have absolutely no idea what he's doing from a legal perspective! If there are any problems, refer to your clearly stated warranty and, if necessary, assert your claim based on the grounds mentioned above. Greetings

Okay, the fax might look something like this:

Quote:

My address. His address. Date. Dear Sir or Madam, To whom it may concern, Hello, Hi, Greetings, Good day, Good morning, Good afternoon, Good evening, [Name], [Title/Position] Referring to our phone conversation and in-person meeting on [Date], and concerning [Specific issue(s) mentioned], I request, taking into consideration the warranty terms outlined in the contract (as follows: [briefly mention warranty terms]), that the issues with my vehicle be resolved. Problem... Since I rely on my vehicle every day, I request that the repairs be completed within one week. Greetings. Please provide the text you would like me to translate from German to English.

Is that enough, or have I forgotten something?

Does it actually make sense to provide legal advice if no guarantee is given regarding its accuracy?

If you sent the corresponding fax before the warranty expired, you should first negotiate with the seller, and in that case, the warranty period will not expire. The dealer has not explicitly rejected the idea that you are entitled to a claim under the warranty, has he?

Regards,
Marcus.